authentic tommasini?
 

hi all,

i am looking at a tomminsi pista circa 1970 on ebay.

however since i know nothing about what a real tommasini looks like i need help in determining if it is authentic.

there are no serial numbers or other stamps on the frame.

there are worn 'tommasini' decals on the down tube and 'grosseto' decal on the seat tube with a worn 'T' decal on the head tube.

any help is appreciated

-lp

any help will require pictures, you can snag them from the eBay auction if you'd rather not publicize the thing (I for one will NOT be bidding against you).

Early Tommasini's are kind of rare. They do not have engravings like the later bikes to confirm their origin.

I can't tell you if that bike is a Tommasini, although it is definitely a nicely built bike.

The only other early 70's bike I could find online is a road model and does not share any of the same features. The creased seat-stay top is a distinctive feature on the ebay bike.

I do think it's overpriced for a frame that needs a full restoration.

here are the pics

http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o...ames/tomassini pista frameset

extensive pictures.

what u think?

-lp

Hi Lucio,

Pics aren't showing.

Send a quick note to: info@tommasini.it

Include a pic.

They have helped me with my two Tommasinis.

I won't bid on your frame, as I have more than my fair share!

thanks for your help guys and not bidding on the frame.

i have sent an email to the tommasini email address, waiting for a reply.

hopefully the links below will come thru


http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=P1090919.jpg

http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=P1090931.jpg

http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=P1090944.jpg


-lp

looks authentic to me, but since I'm no expert, I'd do as you have and see what the Tommasini girls have to say.
Just looked at the auction: yeah at $800 it's overpriced, but if this is your "holy grail" then have at it.

I looked at it on eBay. 800 dollars? Way, WAY! over priced. I can't imagine what would make the seller think it's worth anywhere near that much.

The price is concerning me as well. I have seen some excellent examples of Tommasinis go for favorable prices lately, and that is why I was able to pick mine up.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2691/...113ff120_o.jpg


I ended up paying less than $500 for this entire bike. The frame has some issues, but is fairly solid. I know the frame you are interested in is a Pista and I am unsure of the street price. We can't tell you what you should pay, as you are the one that ultimately must decide the value. Just know that these do come up, so if you don't get this one, there will be additional opportunities down the line.

i got a response from barbara at tommsini.it. she indicates that the bike is *not* an original tommasini.

oh well :-(

i have informed the ebay seller.

-lp

I'll be interested in his response. I've written to him a couple of times about misrepresented items and he's very defensive and dismissive.

He seems to believe a part "is" whatever he ever he really wants it to be.

He does get some nice stuff and seems to be reliable in most cases though.

tommasini fake
 

I am the seller/owner of the Tommasini.

I have tried to authenticate the bike and like everyone, there is limited info and the earliest visible example being The mid 70's on the Classic rendevous site.

If this is as earlier than that why would $800 be over priced for what could possibly be one of the earlier examples of a tommasini pista.

What are the new 2009 frames on ebay hitting $1500

A $500 serious restoration nets you a far more valuable and rare bike.


The dealer I bought it from also had early Masi specials and Cinelli SC's. Easier to ID and definately not fakes, all pretty worked though. So I had no reason to doubt the authenticity.

I'll put the auction on hold and would like some more input on perhaps when Irio or any other builders at Tommasini began building.

As far as me (the seller being defensive) yeah sometimes. Sometimes it's in the delivery of "questions" or other times "Accusations"

I collect and research my gear but don't always get it right, I don't claim to be an expert. If you point something out to me without any BS and can back it up, i'll happily thank you for your info and revise my listing.

Dealing rare parts on ebay isnt a bed of roses, although fun most of the time. I get just as many emails, jumping down my throat about a detail or prices especially!

I got one the other night from "MASISPORT" ebay handle that said "your a c***face and I have more stuff than you do!" I would take that as drunken email considering that I've never dealt with this person. Ive been getting emails from old NELS CONE for a year "koldfushen" rippin on me for my prices. This can make you a bit defensive.

That's off topic on the Tommasini, just attending to the defensive seller comment. This stuff is gettiing imposable to find and I buy the bugs with the roses , reflected in the price. You can't just call up MR. vintage campy and place an order.

Anyone need any 56 tooth 151bcd chainrings. yeah me neither i had to buy them at the same cost as the coveted sizes. So I'll probably end up giving them away.

I'm not active on the forums because I usually just get chewed on for being a dealer. So if anyone has any info on The pista or early Tommasinis please email me at pbbikes@gmail.com.

Thanks Barry

Barry,

No one's gonna chew on ya for being a dealer here, we have a pretty active sales and trade going on here.
56tooth 151. . . hmmm how much do I value my knees?
I'd like to hear more about the frame, If it's as early as you indicate and it looks I wonder what the possiblity is that Barbara Tomassini could get the ID wrong. Wonder if Iro actually looked at it or just Barbara?
I do know the decals are not correct for an early tommasini. which would have had more of a block letter with "Racing" over the later portion of the name, makes me wonder if this is an early Tommasini which was either repainted or redecaled. The early Italian decals had a timed self destruct mechanism, which went off 1/2 hour after being exposed
to sunlight.

Marty

Barry,

Thanks for stopping by. I commend you for your concern in regards to the frameset. There arent many people out there who are willing to confront an issue in the manner in which you did.

Ignore the idiots who send you nasty negatives comments. It seems as if they're alot of people out there who think they're 'internet Einstiens'. *** 'em. 9.5/10 when someone tries to get ownage on me anout one of my items for sale I end up owning them in return.

Here is a link to the current website of Bill Lewis. He was the importer of Tommasinis in the 70s and 80s. Originally his business was in S. Dakota, but it is now in TX.

http://www.quattroassicycles.com/

If you are so inclined, he has his email address at this site and maybe he can shed some light on the authenticity.

Here is mentions his affiliation with Tommasini since 1973:
http://www.quattroassicycles.com/history.html

Dan

P.S. There was a guy from Switzerland selling fake Tommasini 'Gorilla' track frames a few years ago (verified by Tommasini) so Tommasini may (or maybe not) be hypersensitive about this issue. With this Gorilla frame issue and the Wild West nature of eBay sales, it may be easy to jump to the conclusion the poster's frame that he is interested in is fake, without doing lots of research into a frame nearly 40 years ago. Most likely Barbara Tommasini wasn't even born then.

what is process to determine if a frame is authentic to the manufacturer?

i compared the detailed pics of the alleged tommasini with other italian frame and made surprising discovery.
Almost all the frame share the same lug sets. Of particular interest was the headset, bb and set post lugs. Looking at the http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/Italy.html there were even masi's that shared the same lugs. The detail was the yellow triangle on the headset and seat post lugs.
Even more surprising i saw a 'daccordi' (an australian rebadge of an unknown frame) at a local dealer and all 3 lugs were identically including the bb with the 2 cut out and yellow paint!

i can only assume that the lugs were common to many frame makers at that time.

the only part of the frame of the allege tommasini that seems to be unique is the unusually pointed rear stays joining seat post. Most that i have seen are more rounded but this frame is a very sharp pointy ends.

The verdict from 'barbara' didnt not include the reasons for the frame not being authentic. Hence it was unclear who determined the authenticity of the frame. i trust it wasnt an office worker, but a frame maker on the shop floor who decides the authenticity of tommasini frames.

-lp

I havent received a reply back, perhaps because of the weekend. I would guess that it would take a little more searching than justa quick "no its not one of our frames"

I know if I built something 30 plus years ago, i probably wouldnt just remember unless it was something connected to an event.

A few years ago I found a Windsor track frame that had braze ons added and and had a new coat of paint with Peter Weigles logo behind the seat tube.

I Spoke with Peter on the phone and sent him pics and he didnt remember anything about the bike. Obviously he didnt build it but it was an oddity. A track frame with a derailleur hanger and braze ons added later.

I'm more than happy to hang onto the frame and it has sparked a good discussion. Most big Marquees have registries and sites or at least pages dedicated to their history and ID. Tommasini for some reason doesn't have much info out there and I think we all agree it's a marquee deserving of this.

i agree that the seat stay caps are unique and pretty cool, It looks as though the the caps were perhaps two flat pieces brazed together at a slight angle and then brazed onto the mitered tubes.

It may be a Torpado product? It's hard to tell for sure from the photos but the seat-collar ears look "un-filled". This would be more in line with a production bike. Most Italian custom or small run builders would have filled these with brass and made them nice. The seat-stay tops are pretty awkward looking as well. Let us know if you get a more detailed response from Tommasini.

why is this bike now up for $10,000?

It could be a tactic to keep people from buying until origin can be verified. I've seen sellers do it a couple of times.

Interesting post. On the comment on the Gorilla frames up there, as I recall, that discussion got sort of stopped in the middle here on bikeforums, and I never did hear a conclusive answer one way or the other as to where they came from.

On the original question- to my way of thinking, if you don't know the difference between a real Tommasini and a similar bike (I don't, fyi), that's a good reason not to pay extra for the real thing

update
 

Cytodaine, the 10k price tag was to keep the listing up so people can link to it, including Tommasini.

I have received no reply from anyone at Tommasini, I can't definitively say whether it is or isn't and the listing states this.

As of today I put it up for best offer, If someone knows they could get a sweet deal, if not its not a bad looking frame aside from the ratty paint. So if anyones interested reasonable best offers considered.

I should hang onto it but am dealing almost exclusively NOS components and could use the money for other deals and want to get out of selling used frames and get rid of any bikes not in my size.

I have quite afew to move in the meantime includinga 70-71 colnago frame- ots been repainted and braze ons added so its another restoration.

ciao

It's very rare to find totally custom lugs on even the most high-volume bike. Cinelli, Prugnat, Bocama, and Nervex as well as the Japanese companies dominated the market and builders all used stock lugs from those companies. And the big companies copied each other as well.


That's a pretty common seat stay cap on lower end bikes. The higher end bikes usually used plugs. I'm guessing they took a flat piece of metal and creased it down the center.

The strange thing I noticed about this bike was the domed stay end treatment at the dropouts. I don't think that came from a tubing manufacturer. That might be the best clue where this frame came from. They also seemed to have modified the Campagnolo dropouts quite a bit.

The 80's Tommasini's I've seen, like mine, have little Tommasini "T" cut-outs in the lugs:

http://i42.tinypic.com/66g0oh.jpg

The age of my Tommasini
 

Can anyone help with identifying the possible age of my Tommasini?

It has holes in the top tube for the rear brake cable and the down tube and seat tube are drilled & threaded for bottle cages and the down tube has welded lugs for the gear levers.

I think it may be a 1980`s frame?

Can anyone help?

Thanks

Gordon