rumrunn6

the Boston market is brutal. you have to be lucky and catch the bikes before the dealers wake up. Boston ticket scalpers must have training seminars or something

auchencrow

Hi Ivandarken - That probably works with SOME sellers - but I very much doubt that it would work with the guy who asked me if I was on crack for offering him the asking price - after driving an hour to the destination. It has happened a lot - but I'm partly to blame because I invariably jump at a bargain, which is tantamount to laying a dragnet for all the cheaters and weirdos...

The thing is, many of them, even the regular good people, are getting wise to the street values - or worse, are confused, thinking their Raleigh Record is an International. . . (Like this one currently listing in Detroit for $400)

RobbieTunes

^ Cubs fans can write well. How'd that happen? ^

Lot of good points here and other posts.

The people paying the inflated prices are the ones driving the market upwards. I doubt that most C&V folks are rolling with the tide in that regard, as we are more choosy and better informed. If we pay more, it's because we have to, on a bike or part we want.

If waves of uninformed buyers are driving up prices, well then, it's time to sell. Since they seem to be the trendy generation, this too, shall pass. Under that, though, I see a slight expansion of the sport into C&V bikes because they are good values.

The C&V market here is growing in these ways:

-Young men who liked the steel fixed gear conversions, and the single speeds, but realize hills may take gearing.
-MTB riders who are getting into the MUP riding and want to try roads/cross bikes. Think C&V with 700x28's and larger.
-People who know what they're getting into, and recently visited an LBS and did not like the $1000 entry level price.
-Gas-savers who want fitness, a better environment, and value.
-Springtime entry-level triathletes. We often see these bikes for sale again next fall.
-Young women who want mixtes. Again, I could sell all I can build, but they are not simple builds.
-Backup bikes for carbon commandos over 40, then they get hooked on the bikes and the wrenching, etc.
-Same old C&V folks, on their 2nd, 4th, or 11th bike. They are specific.

This isn't a huge increase, but a little increase in each category, with some drop-off as some of the C&V folks keel over.
I try to invite people to fun centuries and group rides. Generally, over half of those trying it for the first time stick with it.

All in all, not a bad thing.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Its not all bad. It frees up my conscience a bit to know that any seller has all the resources they need to find a fair price...if they are selling it ridiculously cheap and cheating themselves, its not for lack of available information.

Ivandarken

auchencrow...

That would really suck. I took a chance on that when I got up at 5am to drive from Chicago to Milwaukee to buy a pair of 69' PX10's (both men's and one in my size) that were offered for $400.00. I asked the seller if he would sell them both to me for $300 if I drove out, and he agreed. He easily could have found a buyer at his asking price or more. I have always been fortunate with the people I meet on CL... whether bikes or antiques, I always seem to find good people and have good conversations to boot.

Wait till you see what I have done to that first PX-10 (Mr. Peugeot will be horrified)

khatfull

Hey, I resemble that remark! (...although I've never had a carbon bike...feel free to call me an aluminum commando though...just doesn't have the same ring to it )

bibliobob

[QUOTE=RobbieTunes;10502010]^ Cubs fans can write well. How'd that happen? ^

Did you just call me a CUBS fan? Fighting words! Yo mama's a Cubs fan! Hold me back! Hold me back!

Actually, I'm a northside Sox fan. Actually, I'm just a beer and hot dog while sitting outside fan.

Actually, I'm just a Big Ten football fan.

Go Bucks!

nine14six

Bikes are no different from anything else, supply and demand dictate the price, but as in anything else information is the key to making good decisions when buying or selling. One thing for sure though, well made high-end bicycles would hold their value better than their mundane Sears & Roebuck cousins if the current cycling renaissance died.

lotek 

To a degree I do think we are driving up the prices.
up until recently (say the last 5 or 6 years) you could find very little information about
Zieleman bikes anywhere. All the info I found was from a collector/sports writer in the Netherlands, and a few anecdotal posts on internet boards.
Thanks to Google and the internet there is now a good deal more information on Zieleman bikes. When I started looking for them on a Dutch auction site about 6 or 7 years ago they were relatively inexpensive, the most I saw them for was about €250 - €300 (with the exception of one crooked dealer who tried to sell me one for $1000 that I Know he paid $150 for). Now I see Zielemans on the same site selling for upwards of €900. I take partial blame for this as I've been screaming all over the internet as to how good they are. I see the same thing happening with other Dutch bikes, RIH, Gazelle and Batavus as an example. As more people become aware of the marque the higher the asking prices go. And make no mistake about it, sellers are becoming more savvy at figuring out prices from such places as ebay, marktplaats, kapazza and yes here (you think the valuations sub forum doesn't get hits from google?).

The other factor is the cost of new bikes. Have you seen the prices of new Carbon Fiber bikes? I think the avg, for the last Bicycling buyers guide was probably close to $3000 for a good bike. There's more demand for servicable, ridable bikes that don't cost as much as a new car, and again sellers are beginning to realize it.

Of course that doesn't mean I don't dream of finding a DeRosa or Cali-Masi at a garage sale for $50, I'm just more realistic that it ain't gonna happen.

marty

khatfull

I think that's a load of crap, I don't care if they are Bicycling magazine. You tell me what percentage of ANY population is going to outride this:


2010 CAAD9-4 with SRAM Rival. $1799 MSRP.

auchencrow

(can't wait to see it)

PS- I don't want to leave the impression that all CL sellers suck - The majority are fine people.

lotek 

I'm not arguing with you, but someone's buying those $5000 bikes with $500 Zero gravity brakes, otherwise
we wouldn't be seeing them. There is a definite push by bike companies and magazines to market bikes as
high end goods. Does everyone need a $5000 full on racing bike? no, but they do play into the whole mindset
of more $ = better .

mishmashmusic

That ticks me off more than anything, as the item in question has usually not been assessed for condition. They see XYZ selling for $150 on eBay, so they put that price on it no matter what condition it's in. The other day I was looking at an item and had to point out all the repairs I would have to make to get it into reasonable shape, just to get the price down to fair market value. It's like the people who assume that an Elvis or Beatles LP is automatically valuable, even if it has been through the ringer.

Ivandarken

Are you part of the Velo-Cheapo build contest. I will be unveiling it there. Heavy on Velo, light on cheapo (excuses self for hijack)

Drakonchik

Amongst the bike flippers in my town, even the ones who have been doing it for years, actual knowledge about bikes, bike mechanics, or cycling seems to roll off them like water off a duck's back. Internet info -- pfffft.

wrk101

While our efforts on this site has made the $10 garage sale/thrift store find much more scarce, it has also helped grow the interest in vintage bikes. So on the one hand, I surely miss some of the awesome finds of a couple of years ago. On the other hand, the market value of C & V bikes has also increased, probably double for the lower end to mid level bikes in my area. So the two factors have kind of cancelled each other out. And its nice to see more and more riders attracted to the vintage stuff regardless.

And many of the flippers out there are attracted to different bikes than I am attracted to. So I still see some pretty nice stuff languish on C/L for a while, although any steel Trek bike at a low price is gone really fast.

auchencrow

There are those, and I have met them ( even got a few excellent deals from them - maybe just because they don't hang out here) - but the other sort of flipper is a hobbyist, in it for the joy of it, and not for the money, and we relish all the great information here. . . There are many of us here like that.

- At least I'm sure about the " not for the money" part of it .

robatsu

The Internet just makes markets more efficient. Less great deals, but also less chance of being robbed blind. Sure, it increases interest in something like C&V bikes, fuelling the demand side, but the supply side is also fuelled, people are more likely to list things that previously would have languished in the basement.

However, the $10 deals are much scarcer, but I'm not sure that that really reflects an objective price rise if you consider the effort necessary to seek out the $10 deals (haunting yard sales, thrift shops, etc). Unless the hunt is/was one's goal, that time is just overhead. Me, I'd rather be able to have a wide selection of offerings at $150 at my fingertips than hope for lightning to strike at $10 for an afternoon of cruising garages, something I really don't have much interest in doing. YMMV

I did have a musical gig for a couple of seasons at the Georgetown Flea Market, me and a fiddler serenading the place when it was temporarily relocated to the Arlington Court House, got a lot of insight into flea market type people and the type of enjoyment they derive from this activity. Ebay was killing them, though.

noglider 

I'm not getting the "we vs they" notion here. Who are we, and who are they?

I'm making a trip to Hartford this week just to buy and sell bikes. We'll see how it goes.

leftthread

Yeah, dat's it! C&V is the next asset class bubble!
And I was so sure it was going to be rare earth minerals...

auchencrow

I think it's safe to say that we are the aficionados. The "others" referred to previously, are just people selling bikes, not vesting any time in them and not interested one iota in their functional or aesthetic merits. Some of them won't even bother to research a bike before listing it for sale. That's why we can (on occasion) buy just a wonderful higher end bike for a mere pittance, but likely as not, it will have a huge gel comfort suspension seat mounted on it. - They're "The them".

BigPolishJimmy

The only thing that bugs me about it is many people are pricing bikes at what seems like the max market value for a ready-to-ride good older bike. The thing is, these bikes often have condition problems, missing seats, bent rims, etc. At one garage sale I took the time to show what appeared to be a desperate methhead redneck how the rear wheel of his very expensive 'racing bike'--a run-of-the-mill-Miyata--was bent. he lowered his price, but I got creeped out and just didn't feel like doing business with him for a bike I wasn't going to ride. But yes, I agree Craigslist is great for selling, not-so-much for buying unless you buy in the dead of winter and hold onto it till the spring. I did this with a couple of low-end bikes, probably not worth my time, but they'll pay for a few inner tubes and cables for my keepers.

douchebagonwhlz

I agree. Saw a Tiagra aluminum frame road bike at a shop last night for over $1000!

noglider 

So far, I'm still having fun. I look for undervalued things on craigslist. If I think I can sell them, I buy them. Also, I assume that the asking price is not firm, and I'm usually proven right. Sometimes I don't ask for a discount, for various reasons.

Given that people's knowledge levels will vary across the population, there will be variation in prices. That's how the market goes around. Low values are an opportunity for me to buy. High values are an opportunity for me to sell. The only thing I fear is for everyone to know the same thing. That would even prices out, which would eliminate me as the middleman. But I can't imagine that happening, since I know a lot more than the average cyclist, and I have a headstart on them, having been in the biz, so to speak, for a long time.

douchebagonwhlz

I say great if you can find and use a bike that came over on a container ship from japan/taiwan/china 20+ years ago. It takes the demand off of more bikes coming over from the far east on container ships.
The convenience factor and expertise of bike shops will never be out of demand for new bikes or outdone.