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Rant - Is 10 speed gearing so confusing?

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Rant - Is 10 speed gearing so confusing?

Old 03-11-10, 10:07 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by RFC View Post
Bueno! Will you rebuild mine?
i could, but you can too. bradford bikes sells all the parts.

if you want to convert an 8spd to 10spd pm me and i will give you a DIY.
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Old 03-11-10, 10:13 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by corkscrew View Post
... Then again I shake my head when I see vintage touring frames converted to SS/FG by the same co-op. (I have a fetish for touring bikes, so my blasphemy meter goes off the charts with that!).
I have only recently become obsessed with touring bikes and I have a similar reaction when seeing converted touring bikes on CL. The cruelest part is that long chainstays are not conducive to the simple, stripped down, track-bike like look and feel that most SS/FG bikes seem to be shooting for. I can see wanting room for one's big feet not to heel strike one's panniers on a commuter, but I have yet to see any of these more blasphemous conversions include a rack or fenders.

That being said, I converted an '83 Schwinn Continental to FG. At the time (the process started three years ago) I did not even know what a touring bike was. The bike has lost LOTS of pounds and rides like a dream now compared to before. The was no posing involved in my decision. I snapped one day when the rear derailler spontaneously exploded* in a not-great neighborhood when I was on a long ride and I was already running late.

And as for the OP, Chicago's CL seems to be wildly inconsistent. I was just about to give up on my search for a large frame 80's ish touring bike when I found and bought TWO from CL in February - an '82 Schwinn Voyaguer SP and an '88 Le Tour frame. Currently I'm leaning toward building up the Le Tour as a FG commuter with a rear rack and full fenders (if I can squeeze them in). If it works for me, it will replace the Continental.

*ok it did not explode, but i had to stop and adjust it in the field. It took time I did not have. I realize in retrospect that it was all my own fault for not keeping it in tune - especially given that I knew in advance I'd be taking a 25 mile ride through some pretty rough parts of town.
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Old 03-11-10, 10:22 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by BigPolishJimmy View Post
... Now what i don't get--probably because i havn't ridden one--is the fixie thing, I like coasting... coasting is just about the most fun thing you can do on a bike. Obviously I'm not a serious cyclist because I coast, but come on. You're zipping along, wind in your hair, out in the world... it's a good thing.
Yes. It is because you haven't ridden one. Coasting was the thing I was most concerned about before I tried going FG. For one thing, lots of people ride a SS with a freewheel. I did for the first couple of years, scoffing at the idea of not coasting. Then I borrowed a cog and tried it. It was super fun and somehow I did immediately feel a more direct connection via the drive train. And almost right away I realized that one can sort of "coast" on a FG. You still have to move your legs but if you don't apply any pressure it is almost the same thing as coasting. At least it feels that way to me.
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Old 03-11-10, 10:33 AM
  #54  
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This thread makes me laugh!
The weather will be better any day now...
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Old 03-11-10, 10:39 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by clasher View Post
Attachment 140996
+
Attachment 140995

That should be enough to handle a bit of wind.
I want to know what front derailleur is being used with that setup!
I have a TA Pro 5 Vis 26/36/46/56 quad that I want to try out but I'm not sure what front derailleur to use with it.
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Old 03-11-10, 10:43 AM
  #56  
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The other 7 have more than two speeds...

This is the only one that coasts...


Fixed gear bikes were popular in 1955...


Used to be a 10 speed but went on a weight loss program... it's sinfully fast too.


Nothing stops this bike...


Ideal folding commuter... no deraileur, rear cables and lost 8 pounds.


Polo ?
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Old 03-11-10, 10:44 AM
  #57  
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Oh... yeah. It's thread like this that keep me off of C&V and BikeForums.
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Old 03-11-10, 10:44 AM
  #58  
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We've had this thread a billion million times. It's like "Dawn of the Dead", only not as funny. Still, that was pretty funny, so I am holding it to a high standard. From about a year or so back:

Originally Posted by Poguemahone View Post
Argh, not this again. I've been riding fixed on the streets for over twenty years now, and geared roadies slightly longer. I've done my fair share of conversions, as well, and ride a converted UO8 and a Converted PX10 (A truly beat up one I found as a frame only). I have to say the massive amounts of BS on both sides of this issue constantly amazes me. I prefered the fixie "movement" about ten years ago, when it was just a bunch of guys converting old and unwanted road bikes (yes, they used to be unwanted crusher material). Now it is much more a fashion movement, and the DIY attitude I used to see has largely faded in favor of the flavour of the day.

Here's what fixies are truly good for: one, developing a steady cadence. And two, in certain weather conditions (snow, rain) you have a far better feel for the back wheel than you do on a geared bike. They are good in traffic, but only under a skilled rider (more on that later), and certainly not a huge or even noticable improvement over a roadie in that department. They used to be good for bar hopping too, because no one would steal them because they couldn't ride them, but those days are sadly over.

Here is some of the BS I've heard about fixies over the years on this board and SSFG:

1) You can trackstand on them, where you can't on a geared bike. Truth: Yes, that's a great skill in traffic, and yes, it is easily done on a geared bike. I'll never forget the stunned hipster who watched me trackstand my old PFN (a geared bike) while insisting it could not be done.

2) You're far more "connected" to a fixie than a road bike; you and the bike are a mystical one. Truth: you're gonna feel connected to a good road bike, too, especially on one that fits you right. If you buy this, you've drunk a lot of fixie koolaid.

3) They're easier to maintain. Truth: Mixed bag. IME they go thru chains and the bearings in the BB and rear wheel quicker than a roadie. Not having the gears give you at best some minor break from maintanence, and keeping proper chain tension on a fixie is important. A wash at best.

4) They're easier to stop. Truth: Hahahahahaha. I haven't noticed any difference, and I know how to skip, skid, and resist stop very well.

5) They're practical. Truth: depends. If you're lugging a light load, sure, they're fine. If you're hucking up hard hills, forget it, and if you're hauling a big load, not at all.

6) They're not fashionable. Truth: oh, yes they are. especially right now.

7) They're quieter. Truth: okay, Campy record ten sounds like a typing pool when coasting. But I've got roadies quieter than my conversions-- depends what you're running.

Now on the other side:

1) Converting to fixed damages the bike. Truth: Not unless you start attacking it with the dremel. Leave it so you can take it back, you're fine. Most fixe conversion riders don't bother with the dremel.

2) Converting to fixie destroys another good vintage bike. Truth: In the course of our retoration/rebuild projects, many of us have taken apart bikes for parts for another build. That, of course, destroys the original build on the parts bike. On the other hand, this allows someone else to buy the frame and rebuild it. That, for instance, is how I got the frame for my Mondia project. I'd be willing to bet the parts were taken off it to be put on something else. And I've got a Frejus ready to sacrifice for the Mondia right now. I don't like it, but the Mondia is my size and the Frejus aint. And if someone buys something just as a frame and builds it to a fixed, isn't it better the frame is being ridden? Heck, I'dve been fine if some other tall fella bought the Mondia before me and made it into a fixed gear. Well, maybe not that fine with it.

3) And the truth is, many of the scenesters have become so obsessed with NJS/ " true track" geometry that they sneer at conversions anyhoo. It's kinda sad that a group of folks who once prized a DIY ethic now treasure spending much loot on the "proper" bike.



The current fascination with fixies is a fad, no matter what anyone says. Eventually the style mavens will move on to touring bikes, recumbents dutch city bikes, Segways, or whatever, I dunno. It's worth recalling that the vast majority of the bikes we so admire on this board were part of another fad-- i.e. the bike boom of the seventies, without which we would never have had so many of those cool vintage frames we so love.

Some of the riders that bought into the fad will discover a love of riding, and continue on with it, long after fixies are relegated to the dustbins of fashion for some inexplicable trend, like gluing magic cards to your forehead, or something equally non-sensical. I've helped several people convert bikes, and almost all of them have kept riding. That's a great thing.

If I have one major problem with the fixie fad, it's the sheer number of fixie riders who simply can't ride the darn things. They can't trackstand, they can't stop them (especially after removing their front brake) and they weave thru stop signs and intersections like drunken circus bears on a tiny bike. I wish for their own sake they'd find a deserted parking lot and practice stopping and other skills; it's not exactly like riding a freewheel bike. And I wish they'd learn to check their chain tension-- I've seen two brakeless riders now throw their chain and then have to stop desperately. It's only hilarious if they escape death. I've seen countless other fixies in town with very loose chains, which is a problem. There's no mech to pick up the slack, kids-- adjust your wheel in the drops. Please.
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Old 03-11-10, 10:48 AM
  #59  
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I generally don't like SS unless I am off road-ing but make an exception for my old CCM coaster bike which also has a fixed wheel set I run when I want to go lighter and longer.
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Old 03-11-10, 12:35 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
Nothing stops this bike...
So that front brake is purely cosmetic, then?
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Old 03-11-10, 10:22 PM
  #61  
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For me, figuring out a good set of gear ratios and then selecting the best gear at each point during a ride is a major part of the fun of cycling. My first bicycle was a Schwinn two-speed -- I graduated to a 10-speed 6 months later and never looked back.
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Old 03-11-10, 11:25 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by buck mulligan View Post
So that front brake is purely cosmetic, then?
Usually.
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Old 03-12-10, 12:07 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
Nothing stops this bike...
When that loose strap gets caught in the spokes that bike will STOP!
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Old 03-12-10, 09:38 AM
  #64  
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I agree with the OP's sentiment...since I've been riding multi-speed bikes since I was like 10 or something, the concept of listenting/feeling the shifting is 2nd nature to me. That's true to the extent that it bugs me to hear other people's gears clicking when they need to be trimmed (even though in full fairness mine click sometimes when i'm pushing hard/tired/in heavy wind & haven't trimmed them yet). Sure, there are a few fewer moving parts to keep up with, but if you're even slightly mechanically inclined it's not rocket science. That said, here are my observations:

I grew up with "10 speeds", and then mountain bikes. I had a home-made BMX bike that I did stunts with & rode a lot, but I always had geared bikes too. There are a lot of people who grew up riding the urban BMX stuff and never really had the steady presence of geared bikes in their lives.

A SS bike (or fixed...in a different way) is a different experience. I enjoy it even here in the hills of the southern Appalachians. I find it makes a nice balance to what can become a constant flicking of gears on a 'normal' bike. What I can't really relate to is how it would somehow be preferable for commuting or short trips except in climates where the derailleurs may become ice or mud packed and cease to function. To me, it's another option. In fact, it can be a nice option if I'm riding with a group of casual riders so the lack of gearing may keep me a bit more in pace with the other riders.

I'm all for sellers finding gears, shifting or comprehension of English, French or Italian text written on bike frames to be utterly confusing and not worth the effort to figure out!
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Old 03-12-10, 10:15 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Mike Mills View Post
When that loose strap gets caught in the spokes that bike will STOP!
It has not been an issue over the last 2 years and 10,000 or 12,000 km...

The looped straps don't fly about even when the bags are empty and have never had them come close to touching a spoke... MEC has been making their bags like this forever and I have never heard of anyone having this happen.
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Old 03-12-10, 10:21 AM
  #66  
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On this whole shifting thing... besides my little collection of mono and dual speeds that don't coast I have 7 other bikes that have gearing that ranges from 3 speed to 24 with both the 24 speed bikes being indexed.

I still ride a road bike with dt friction shifters and have no issue shifting gears with wanton abandon whenever more gears are needed... after a day of tuning bikes and setting up gears this mechanic appreciates the simplicity of a bike that you can just get on and ride.

Yesterday was insanely windy and I was doing some hill climbing with loaded panniers so it was a good day to run my hybrid (24 speed) but today I will just be pootling around, there is little wind, and there aren't any hills in my immediate forecast.

I have taken that Kuwahara up our city's steepest hill and this was when it was running a much taller gearing than it does now... the grade ranges from 18 to 22 %.

But you don't want to do that all day.
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Old 03-12-10, 10:30 AM
  #67  
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Hey, if you want a bike with a fixed gear, go for it. Whatever floats your boat. Personally, the bikes I keep have, or at some time in the future will have indexed shifting. Riding in traffic is something that requires full attention. No distractions from trimming derailleurs or pedal braking.
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Old 03-12-10, 10:47 AM
  #68  
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I have a dirty little secret... I really like this bike that is made of aluminium (all the rest are steel) and now has indexed shifting. It's one of the smoothest running and most comfortable bikes I have.

If it was not for the fact it lacks clipless pedals and only has 24 speeds I'd be at risk of losing my membership in the retro grouch club.

On the other hand, my friend is 75 and still rides his fixed gear on a near daily basis as he does not always have a need for multiple gears either.

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Old 03-12-10, 11:01 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by tashi View Post
Pardon me, I need to go do a quick SS conversion to my commuter bike. Even though I have the parts around to fix it.

The rear derailleur seized while on the drive across Canada and I need a bike to get around. A nice simple one with few parts to fail in the salty, dirty, Ottawa winter.

Done and done:


The requisite chainline shot, taken at the standard angle that doesn't allow you to see the chainline. I used some copper pipe and cassette spacers to align the cog.




I feel so connected with the bike now, riding through traffic without all those bourgeoisie gears is so Zen.











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Old 03-12-10, 11:13 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by tashi View Post

I feel so connected with the bike now, riding through traffic without all those bourgeoisie gears is so Zen.

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Old 03-12-10, 11:14 AM
  #71  
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tashi - I like the clever usage of the copper pipe and fenders.
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Old 03-12-10, 11:23 AM
  #72  
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Thanks 65er.

The pipe is a bit of an experiment. I bought the smallest length I could at the old generic big-box hardware store, figured out what length I needed, and cut it by hand with my hacksaw. I haven't actually ridden the bike since doing this work to it, but it seems to run pretty true. It's a little larger diameter than the freehub so you have to use some kind of spacer to keep it off of the hub shell - I used a plastic cassette spacer. I think it would look, and possibly work, better if there was a flange on both ends. There is another plastic spacer and a small metal cassette spaces between the cog and the lockring that keeps the lockring from bottoming out on the freehub body.

I'm hoping that it ages nicely. I bet it would actually add something aesthetically to a bike with a nice monotone colour scheme.
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Old 03-12-10, 12:05 PM
  #73  
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I like fixed gears, internal gears, 10speed, granny gears, coaster brake hubs (I actually own one of each if you wouldn't believe it..except no 3speed yet).

I ride a POS fixed gear in the snow, it's amazing how much safer using the slow stopping power of my legs instead of the brakes (I have both installed though and I'm not talking skids I'm talking slow planned stops)

The single speed coaster brake bike is just my death trap, it's my dads old and it's my I'm going out with the wife and don't want to dust her bike. It's also my watch me do stupid things like skid 50 feet around a corner bike.. (dumb)..

The sweet deal fixed gear is for rides in town and about...It looks sweet, was also the first bike I fixed up... It feels good on the path and on the streets

Gears are awesome though too, I ride around the country side with my gears...no hills to be afraid of. Once on my fixed gear I had to walk my bike up a hill...that's when I decided to get my old ten speed up and running.. Skidding is fun too.. I mean come on, it's fun to lock up that rear wheel and rip out a skid..

There are a few benefits of fixed gears: 1) they simply look good the lines are clean and sharp, much like the lines of an old raleigh clubman english racer (oh yeah these are awesome bikes too and if I were rich I'd own one). 2) The whole track stand thing is cool. Riding can get boring right? So when you're at a stop light it's an extra game to try to balance without going anywhere! 3) Reliable..

The downside is simply fear of hills.. I ride with brakes.. But the new/old sturmey archer 3 speed fixed gear hub is 90.00 of awesomeness..

I think we are associating fixed gears with the materialism and DBagery of the hipster...They are separate things.. I also hate hipsters...I also hate hipsters who take a Raleigh Record or Colnogo frame and ruin it! BOO...
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Old 03-12-10, 01:08 PM
  #74  
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Old 03-12-10, 02:11 PM
  #75  
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Tejano - I like your tastes in bikes.
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