Real1shepherd

I agree...a nice Stronglight set only adds to the bike's fucntion and looks. Ditch the HEAVY steel crank set. Simplex shifters were the factory issue....early 70's. Show us some close ups of the head tubing/lugs.

As far as the comment about the International....everyone I knew that bought one was disappointed. They were exepcting some high-end racer's edge bike and got a completely touring set up framewise. And unfortunately for the bikes themsleves, the Campy stuff was so high-end that people often robbed the gearing off the frames and put them on other bikes. In those days, everyone wanted the look/feel of the racer's edge in bikes....even if they never raced a lick.

As far as the saddles....just remember before you plunk down over $100 for a used Brooks...those seat designs were the virtual origin of compressed/flattened blood vessels and sterility in men. They look fantastic, but they did a lot of groin health damage.

Kevin

bwilli88 

Please show some documentation for this. I have less problems with my 5 Brooks than with any other saddle.

Real1shepherd

I don't have to. There have been any number of research studies done over the yrs that show the old-school racing saddles to be the cause of sterility in some men. Albeit the Brooks saddle is supposed to 'confrom' to your groin over time, it's the lack of padding, the actual shape, and the blood vessles that get compressed which feed your groin at stake here.

I challenge you instead to show me documentation to prove otherwise; that it's completely safe to use these type of saddles.

Kevin

nlerner

Cycling Doesn't Cause Male Infertility: Study

bwilli88 

So where can I find these studies?

Real1shepherd

If you'll read carefully, it's not a study that pits old-school saddles against the newer padded designs for men. It's a study that encompasses only the newer saddles and even mentions that the study was probably affected by the newer padded saddles.

We're talking about using vintage Brooks saddles here, not modern, orthopedically designed saddles.

Kevin

Real1shepherd

Google is your friend. I did my own research on this some yrs back. Even saw sonogram pics of compressed and oblong blood blood vessels leading to the reproductive tract. I'm not selling or distributing modern, padded men's bicycle seats. I have no dog in this fight. Just like in heart disease, people can eat the wrong foods all their lives and never get heart disease.....but you're extremely likely to get heart disease if you eat the wrong foods all your life.

Just consider my claim to be a point of view then and draw your own conclusions based on the evidence out there. I have two beautiful Brooks saddles to go on two bikes...I will probably use them, but I'm not a young man trying to start a family and riding like I used to when in college. In the past 15yrs, I've used specially designed saddles that are supposed to alleviate this issue...I prefer the ones that are most streamlined. But nothing looks like the Brooks type saddles for sure.

I would bet money that in the vast expanse of this bike forum, this topic has been discussed ad nauseam.

Kevin

nlerner

Well, then, you'll have to find that study if you think it exists. Somehow I doubt the veracity of a test of old suspension leather saddle vs. modern-design saddle when it comes to fertility, an outcome that has myriad variables one would have to account for. Now, if it's about prostate health, that might be a different story. But fertility?

And my anecdote is that I rode Brooks leather saddles through my child-producing years (I'm 57 with two kids, ages 15 and 19). I'll continue to do so!

Slightspeed

How did this thread get hijacked into a Brooks liability discussion? Show us your Super Course, great bikes, whatever saddle you prefer.

noglider 

It hasn't.

Real1shepherd

No, as I said earlier the burden of proof is not on me. Unless of course you suspect that the infertility researchers were in bed with the new wave of bicycle seat designers/manufacturers.

Yes, there are a myriad of variables attached to this issue like; your particular groin configuration, your weight, how hard you ride and how hard you press your groin against the seat...etc, etc.

For me at my age, I'd be more concerned about rising PSA's and a possible link to prostate cancer. Anything that drives your PSA count up should be taken seriously....although PSA results are under fire (as of late) for being the end game test in prostate cancer.

To the poster who accuses me of "hijacking" this thread. I was discussing points on the poster's recent bronze SC purchase and threw in the part about older saddle design. Hardly hijacking and think whatever you want about the issue.

Kevin

Real1shepherd

Hmmm....I'm dumbfounded. Maybe it's been too long since the newer padded seats have come out.

BTW boys seem to have been be exempt from this issue.....so much is changing down there, that their hard riding seems to have no effect on fertility unless they continued as young men with the old seat design.

Kevin

noglider 

I contend that your assertion about leather saddles is untrue, and it might not have even been discussed.

lugsNleather58

I was only 14 and definitely not a racer (or a wannabe racer), so I'm sure the subtleties of International vs Professional would have eluded me. The Reynolds 531 DB and the Campy components were the main appeal to me. Truth be told, if I had the funds, I would have bought the Schwinn P15 Paramount, which listed about $100 less than the International.

As it was, the Super Course served me well for 14 years until it was replaced by a Trek 520 in the mid 80s. I bought and restored my current SC out of nostalgia, and I really enjoy riding it. I still have my Brooks B15 saddle from 1972, and I wouldn't trade it for anything -it still fits me perfectly.

Real1shepherd

Well, in keeping with that thinking....I bought a super nice used Grand Prix from a bike shop in the early 70's. I put Sun Tour gearing on it almost immediately. I wanted an alloy crank set, but lacked the funds at the time. In my young ignorance (and I blame the bike shop as well), I never knew about lines above the GP. If I had, I would have eventually bought the Competition series (maybe higher) as I got a bit older. I might have raced bikes too given the opportunity, but that eluded me as a possibility. No Internet, didn't hang around bike shops, didn't pick up bike mags....just serious biking for lack of a car. Ignorance was bliss.

I came into this thread originally with a SC purchase. What I really wanted was a Competition GS, which so far had eluded me. Then I scored big with a local GS that was bone stock original, except for the seat...lol.

Kevin

Real1shepherd

I contend that you need to Google the past research on old-school leather saddle racing design with respect to health and groin issues and understand that these are not outlandish claims I've made up. I've said all I'm going to on the subject. Bury your head in the sand if you must....ride whatever you wish.

Kevin

noglider 

You made an assertion, and I need to google it to verify it? That's not how it works.

IronDan

I'll try again because my first attempt was all blurry

noglider 

Pic assist

IronDan

Thanks 😳

356C

Car and Bicycle bought in 1971, both used regularly today.

Real1shepherd

I made an assertion, yes. But I suggested you Goggle the research just like I did yrs ago. If the research is out there, why should I prove anything to you? I'm inviting you to draw your own conclusion based on past research. Your mind is already made up, ergo, you never had any issues yourself so there must not be a problem with the old-school saddles. That's how it doesn't work; a closed mind is a shut book.

Funny that you only see the the old-school leather saddles on retro bikes or restorations. Hmmmm....guess the bike saddle industry just figured everyone's butt needed a break.

Kevin

noglider 

What I mean is that if you want me to believe something, tell me what you know. I'll listen. But I don't have to do your work to confirm or deny what you say. My unwillingness to do that is not the sign of a closed mind.

I see leather saddles on all kinds of bikes here. I see hundreds of bikes every day here in NYC in going about my day, without working in the industry.

tonyoakes

Hey I just got a 1973 Super Course that is my first project bike. I need to replace a broken fixed cup, worn adjustable cup and get new bearings. I am having trouble figuring out if this bike has 26 tpi cups or 24 tpi. What year did Raleigh make the change to the BCS threads? And I am also wondering if this bike was made by Carlton or if that is a series or something. Mine no longer has the decals but I have seen the decal under the seat online. Also what size seat post is used? Mine is too small and in rough shape. Thanks a lot.

Tony

Slightspeed

My '73 Super Course has 1.37 x 24 BB cups, std English thread, but the fork steerer is 1 inch 26 tpi. Go figure. If its a '73, it should have the fancy Italian Capella lugs. Not sure but I think these were made by Carlton. My bike had no decals, but had been spray painted over when I found the frame. This paint is a new respray I had done. Not sure of seat post, but I'm thinking 26.2. Mine was damaged and I found one on ebay.