Finally done: Presto Model Campagnolo
03-23-10, 03:50 PM
#1
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Finally done: Presto Model Campagnolo
Something really different than the Vitus ***9/Zap I am busy with now: A really fine steel frame with conventional Campagnolo Nuovo Record groupset.
I just finished the major overhaul. My aim with the resto was to leave the patina fully in tact, but guarentee optimal function at the same time.
The 1st pics >>
I just finished the major overhaul. My aim with the resto was to leave the patina fully in tact, but guarentee optimal function at the same time.
The 1st pics >>
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03-23-10, 03:52 PM
#2
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nice looking bike. it that XXX on the stay caps?
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03-23-10, 05:25 PM
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Presto is from Amsterdam, Netherlands ...and, like Bianchigirl already mentioned, on the top the stays we find "XXX", which is derived from the Amsterdam coat of arms, as is the badge 
Some Prestos also came with "XXX" milled away under the bracket. This one doesn't, but has another nice touch there. More on it later.
Frame
This mid 70s Presto frame is made by a masterbuilder with a very perfectionist attitude: Jan Legrand. There are plenty nice touches.
Notice the slot with the drillings at the ends under the clampbolt. Jan considered that superior in constuction than the usual clamping-solution >>
Below pic does not only show you the tubing decal, but it also clearly shows you the ridges of the stay-tops. A typical Legrand feature. I have heard it is created for better brazing surface, heat flow or something like that (feel free to add to this). Some will also recognize it from their TI Raleighs of the late 70s/early 80s. An influence by Legrand? Could very well be as by then Legrand had started as masterbuilder/chief mechanic for TI Raleigh for a couple of years.
Typical: Squarish brake bridge >>
...and there is also a little squarish tube behind the bracket. If you look very closely, below pic also unveils a little about the cable routing. There is no braze on, no, the cables run slotted in the bb shell itself. Simple.
View on the Cinelli lugs and the top of the Presto-typical chromed forks. The fork has a complety smooth surface. The crown fits in the blades instead of the for the era more usual other way round >>
Picture also provides a glimpse on the spacer between uppercup and locknut. So far all Prestos I've seen -and I've seen quite a lot- showed that setup. So steerer slightly longer than frame needs. A clear design choice obviously.
Each Presto was build individually and is in fact a one off. Also in the characteristics mentioned above there can be differences in execution from frame to frame.
I happen to have another goldish-painted Presto frame, also a 'Model Campagnolo' and though alike it is very different at the same time. The lugs have more cut outs and have seen more filing. The drop outs are drilled. Probably all in an attempt to save additional weight. The Presto could also be ordered with 753 tubing. They were very expensive in the day and while you won't see a 531 one on every corner of the street, the 753 is even more rare.
Some Prestos also came with "XXX" milled away under the bracket. This one doesn't, but has another nice touch there. More on it later.
Frame
This mid 70s Presto frame is made by a masterbuilder with a very perfectionist attitude: Jan Legrand. There are plenty nice touches.
Notice the slot with the drillings at the ends under the clampbolt. Jan considered that superior in constuction than the usual clamping-solution >>
Below pic does not only show you the tubing decal, but it also clearly shows you the ridges of the stay-tops. A typical Legrand feature. I have heard it is created for better brazing surface, heat flow or something like that (feel free to add to this). Some will also recognize it from their TI Raleighs of the late 70s/early 80s. An influence by Legrand? Could very well be as by then Legrand had started as masterbuilder/chief mechanic for TI Raleigh for a couple of years.
Typical: Squarish brake bridge >>
...and there is also a little squarish tube behind the bracket. If you look very closely, below pic also unveils a little about the cable routing. There is no braze on, no, the cables run slotted in the bb shell itself. Simple.
View on the Cinelli lugs and the top of the Presto-typical chromed forks. The fork has a complety smooth surface. The crown fits in the blades instead of the for the era more usual other way round >>
Picture also provides a glimpse on the spacer between uppercup and locknut. So far all Prestos I've seen -and I've seen quite a lot- showed that setup. So steerer slightly longer than frame needs. A clear design choice obviously.
Each Presto was build individually and is in fact a one off. Also in the characteristics mentioned above there can be differences in execution from frame to frame.
I happen to have another goldish-painted Presto frame, also a 'Model Campagnolo' and though alike it is very different at the same time. The lugs have more cut outs and have seen more filing. The drop outs are drilled. Probably all in an attempt to save additional weight. The Presto could also be ordered with 753 tubing. They were very expensive in the day and while you won't see a 531 one on every corner of the street, the 753 is even more rare.
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03-23-10, 07:46 PM
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I always it seemed wanted a Presto track bike, 6 Day type.
03-23-10, 08:47 PM
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Interesting build tidbits - especially that seatlug. Not sure I agree with the caps (I've seen some Raleigh examples wherein it looks as if it was done as an excuse not to file them down), but the entire build is an interesting study regardless.
-Kurt
-Kurt
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03-23-10, 10:00 PM
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Wow, that is sweet! Nice write up about the frame, very interesting.
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03-24-10, 10:58 AM
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Presto is from Amsterdam, Netherlands ...and, like Bianchigirl already mentioned, on the top the stays we find "XXX", which is derived from the Amsterdam coat of arms, as is the badge
Some Prestos also came with "XXX" milled away under the bracket. This one doesn't, but has another nice touch there. More on it later.
Frame
This mid 70s Presto frame is made by a masterbuilder with a very perfectionist attitude: Jan Legrand. There are plenty nice touches.
Notice the slot with the drillings at the ends under the clampbolt. Jan considered that superior in constuction than the usual clamping-solution >>
Below pic does not only show you the tubing decal, but it also clearly shows you the ridges of the stay-tops. A typical Legrand feature. I have heard it is created for better brazing surface, heat flow or something like that (feel free to add to this). Some will also recognize it from their TI Raleighs of the late 70s/early 80s. An influence by Legrand? Could very well be as by then Legrand had started as masterbuilder/chief mechanic for TI Raleigh for a couple of years.
Typical: Squarish brake bridge >>
...and there is also a little squarish tube behind the bracket. If you look very closely, below pic also unveils a little about the cable routing. There is no braze on, no, the cables run slotted in the bb shell itself. Simple.
View on the Cinelli lugs and the top of the Presto-typical chromed forks. The fork has a complety smooth surface. The crown fits in the blades instead of the for the era more usual other way round >>
Picture also provides a glimpse on the spacer between uppercup and locknut. So far all Prestos I've seen -and I've seen quite a lot- showed that setup. So steerer slightly longer than frame needs. A clear design choice obviously.
Each Presto was build individually and is in fact a one off. Also in the characteristics mentioned above there can be differences in execution from frame to frame.
I happen to have another goldish-painted Presto frame, also a 'Model Campagnolo' and though alike it is very different at the same time. The lugs have more cut outs and have seen more filing. The drop outs are drilled. Probably all in an attempt to save additional weight. The Presto could also be ordered with 753 tubing. They were very expensive in the day and while you won't see a 531 one on every corner of the street, the 753 is even more rare.
Some Prestos also came with "XXX" milled away under the bracket. This one doesn't, but has another nice touch there. More on it later.
Frame
This mid 70s Presto frame is made by a masterbuilder with a very perfectionist attitude: Jan Legrand. There are plenty nice touches.
Notice the slot with the drillings at the ends under the clampbolt. Jan considered that superior in constuction than the usual clamping-solution >>
Below pic does not only show you the tubing decal, but it also clearly shows you the ridges of the stay-tops. A typical Legrand feature. I have heard it is created for better brazing surface, heat flow or something like that (feel free to add to this). Some will also recognize it from their TI Raleighs of the late 70s/early 80s. An influence by Legrand? Could very well be as by then Legrand had started as masterbuilder/chief mechanic for TI Raleigh for a couple of years.
Typical: Squarish brake bridge >>
...and there is also a little squarish tube behind the bracket. If you look very closely, below pic also unveils a little about the cable routing. There is no braze on, no, the cables run slotted in the bb shell itself. Simple.
View on the Cinelli lugs and the top of the Presto-typical chromed forks. The fork has a complety smooth surface. The crown fits in the blades instead of the for the era more usual other way round >>
Picture also provides a glimpse on the spacer between uppercup and locknut. So far all Prestos I've seen -and I've seen quite a lot- showed that setup. So steerer slightly longer than frame needs. A clear design choice obviously.
Each Presto was build individually and is in fact a one off. Also in the characteristics mentioned above there can be differences in execution from frame to frame.
I happen to have another goldish-painted Presto frame, also a 'Model Campagnolo' and though alike it is very different at the same time. The lugs have more cut outs and have seen more filing. The drop outs are drilled. Probably all in an attempt to save additional weight. The Presto could also be ordered with 753 tubing. They were very expensive in the day and while you won't see a 531 one on every corner of the street, the 753 is even more rare.
I do believe though, that the horizontal slit in the seatlug means its a Peter Serier built Presto. Peter worked from the mid- late 70s to the c. 1983 for Presto, for a while together with Jan Legrand. The horizontal slit was his trademark, or at least invented by him.
When he left Presto he worked for Peka (also Amsterdam) for a while, and later made frames under his own name.
https://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/..._2077.jpg.html
Does the frame have a serial? Its hould indicate the year of build .
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03-24-10, 11:08 AM
#12
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Pics of a '79 Peter Serier built Presto. The open ended stay ends were also used by Legrand, to confuse matters ... And my '72 Presto (build by Jan Legrand) doesn't have the overlapping seatstay caps, so must have added that touch later, maybe after he started working for the TI-Raleigh pro team, and was over in England in the winters, building frames for the teamin the Raleigh workshop.
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Last edited by s70rguy; 03-24-10 at 11:11 AM.
03-24-10, 12:35 PM
#13
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Hi Freek,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and pictures with us. Very interesting. I have to admit I am kinda puzzled now. I weren't there at the time, so all I know is what has been told to me by people who were around. I tend to view as the no.1 Presto authority I know, so probably my initial assumption about it being Legrand built is incorrect. Serier it is.
I have taken a look at your 1972 Legrand built Presto (in your Wooljersey Gallery). It shows a lot resemblance with the mid 70s 'Model Jan Legrand' I owned. The drop out connections differ, but it looks like that is about it.
The yellow frame shows a lot resemblance with my 'golden' frame. They're also of about the same era. I plan to build my 'golden' with Perlissier Professional 2000 hubs, Super Mighty cranks en Super Record rest later this year.
Last Presto project -and I am really looking forward to that one- will be a blue frame of which several said it is a modified Gazelle A-frame. It can be found under the same pic link, on page 2. Differences I spot with A-frame: bb lug/shell with more decoration, more filing on the Bocama lugs, squarish brakebridge instead of butterfly. It could be original serial is subtlely milled away. There now is a Presto serial present.
I will check the green Presto for a serial.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and pictures with us. Very interesting. I have to admit I am kinda puzzled now. I weren't there at the time, so all I know is what has been told to me by people who were around. I tend to view as the no.1 Presto authority I know, so probably my initial assumption about it being Legrand built is incorrect. Serier it is.
I have taken a look at your 1972 Legrand built Presto (in your Wooljersey Gallery). It shows a lot resemblance with the mid 70s 'Model Jan Legrand' I owned. The drop out connections differ, but it looks like that is about it.
The yellow frame shows a lot resemblance with my 'golden' frame. They're also of about the same era. I plan to build my 'golden' with Perlissier Professional 2000 hubs, Super Mighty cranks en Super Record rest later this year.
Last Presto project -and I am really looking forward to that one- will be a blue frame of which several said it is a modified Gazelle A-frame. It can be found under the same pic link, on page 2. Differences I spot with A-frame: bb lug/shell with more decoration, more filing on the Bocama lugs, squarish brakebridge instead of butterfly. It could be original serial is subtlely milled away. There now is a Presto serial present.
I will check the green Presto for a serial.
03-24-10, 02:13 PM
#14
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To give the Americans on this forum some background, here is a (very small) pic of Roy Schuiten, must be before he joined TI-Raleigh in '74. He's on a Presto, at least the hat of the 'soigneur' is Presto.
Some years ago, when I was in the Oostzaan shop of Presto, there was a beautiful Presto trackbike hanging from the rafters. It had the same open ended stays and forks as the '79 Presto. It was Schuiten's bike. Roy Schuiten was a very stylish rider, only his legs were moving when at speed. He was pro pursuit world champion in '74 I believe, on a Raleigh build by Jan Legrand of course.
In '75 he attempted the world hour record in Mexico, to beat the Merckx record. Peter Post believed he was the man to do it, but Schuiten failed in 3 attempts. Schuiten died in 2006, 56 years old.
Some years ago, when I was in the Oostzaan shop of Presto, there was a beautiful Presto trackbike hanging from the rafters. It had the same open ended stays and forks as the '79 Presto. It was Schuiten's bike. Roy Schuiten was a very stylish rider, only his legs were moving when at speed. He was pro pursuit world champion in '74 I believe, on a Raleigh build by Jan Legrand of course.
In '75 he attempted the world hour record in Mexico, to beat the Merckx record. Peter Post believed he was the man to do it, but Schuiten failed in 3 attempts. Schuiten died in 2006, 56 years old.
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03-24-10, 03:00 PM
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so a 1978 it is ...
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03-24-10, 03:57 PM
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I just know that somewhere in the 70s Presto started to add the year digits to the serial number. My '72 has 2114, I've owned a '77 which had 772364, and I don't remember the serial of the '79 one, but it started with 79. It seems that they just kept adding to the serial numbers, so you can see production was not very high.
There are some Presto's in the US, in New Jersey I believe. In the early 70s a racing club ordered several Presto's, maybe more than a dozen. So maybe someone who is reading this thread can add to the list of serials.
There are some Presto's in the US, in New Jersey I believe. In the early 70s a racing club ordered several Presto's, maybe more than a dozen. So maybe someone who is reading this thread can add to the list of serials.
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03-24-10, 04:20 PM
#19
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I checked the 'golden' and the blue 'A-frame':
The golden says 792521, so 1979 - what I expected it to be.
The blue A says P1038
It does not follow the system.
The golden says 792521, so 1979 - what I expected it to be.
The blue A says P1038
It does not follow the system.
03-24-10, 04:55 PM
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Great thread. Great bikes. Great pics. Great info. Thanks, guys! (I've bought at least one frame from Freek in the past.) I have a Ti Raleigh Team frame Legrand may have had a hand in (according to the BB SN code it was made for Frank Hoste).
03-24-10, 06:33 PM
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Melvin,
Very nice.
Just another reason ya gotta love Dutch bikes.
I've sort of been thinking I should get a Peka but then I've never actually seen one
except maybe Freek's photos.
Freek, do you know has anyone else ever used Serriers slotted seatstay arrangement?
Marty
Very nice.
Just another reason ya gotta love Dutch bikes.
I've sort of been thinking I should get a Peka but then I've never actually seen one
except maybe Freek's photos.
Freek, do you know has anyone else ever used Serriers slotted seatstay arrangement?
Marty
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03-24-10, 06:48 PM
#23
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Awesome bike, sir. Love the color.
And second what vjp said about "honest wear." I'd much rather have a used vintage than a museum piece.
And second what vjp said about "honest wear." I'd much rather have a used vintage than a museum piece.
03-25-10, 05:54 AM
#24
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Thank you all for the kind words on the Presto. She is blushing a little.
Last weekend there was the classic bike display 'Stalen Ros' in Neerkant, Netherlands. I weren't able to make it, but I found a pic link on the web that gives me an idea of what I sadly missed. Presto was represented. Here a glimpse of a Presto stayer bicycle, with a Zieleman track in the background >>
Slideshow with more (thanks to them who composed this)
Last weekend there was the classic bike display 'Stalen Ros' in Neerkant, Netherlands. I weren't able to make it, but I found a pic link on the web that gives me an idea of what I sadly missed. Presto was represented. Here a glimpse of a Presto stayer bicycle, with a Zieleman track in the background >>
Slideshow with more (thanks to them who composed this
)
03-25-10, 10:38 AM
#25
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wonderful stuff, great bikes those Prestos...I learn something new every day at this forum!
Isn't it amazing that even back in the Middle Ages, the founders of Amsterdam knew that "triple X" was going to figure importantly in their city's future!
There were Gitanes that employed that "leaf" style stay cap (that's one thing I've heard it called) so it wasn't strictly a Dutch/Raleigh Pro feature.
Somebody said it might have indicated a frame made by Heylett (a brand that Gitane acquired) but take that with a grain of salt.
Isn't it amazing that even back in the Middle Ages, the founders of Amsterdam knew that "triple X" was going to figure importantly in their city's future!
There were Gitanes that employed that "leaf" style stay cap (that's one thing I've heard it called) so it wasn't strictly a Dutch/Raleigh Pro feature.
Somebody said it might have indicated a frame made by Heylett (a brand that Gitane acquired) but take that with a grain of salt.
