Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Weinmann rims without hooks - some advice please

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Weinmann rims without hooks - some advice please

Old 03-24-10, 06:36 PM
  #1  
Rustbelt Rider
Thread Starter
 
mkeller234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 9,104

Bikes: 1990 Trek 1420 - 1978 Raleigh Professional - 1973 Schwinn Collegiate - 1974 Schwinn Suburban

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked 372 Times in 177 Posts
Weinmann rims without hooks - some advice please

My 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport still has it's original 27in alloy Weinmann rims, with no hooks. I am (hoping) to replace the knobby kenda tires on it with some 27x1 Panaracer pasela tires that I have. I am not sure about inflating the tires above 85psi.

The only thing that makes me hopeful is the original catalog I have here. The catalog refers to the rims as "high pressure" and the bike originally came with High pressure Clement tires.

So... bad idea? I just can't understand why a bike with butted Reynolds 531 tubes would come with rims that limit the tire pressure?
__________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
mkeller234 is offline  
Old 03-24-10, 06:47 PM
  #2  
curmudgineer
 
old's'cool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago SW burbs
Posts: 4,417

Bikes: 2 many 2 fit here

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 263 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times in 70 Posts
I think generally the pressure limitation is from the tires. I've seen tires that have two ratings, a lower one and a higher rating for "hook bead rims". So the rim type can influence the tire pressure rating, but the tire ulltimately determines the rating. I don't rule out an extreme case where an ultra high pressure tire might cause a rim to spread, but that would have to do with the strength of the rim and not whether or not it has a hook bead.
old's'cool is offline  
Old 03-24-10, 06:49 PM
  #3  
Rustbelt Rider
Thread Starter
 
mkeller234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 9,104

Bikes: 1990 Trek 1420 - 1978 Raleigh Professional - 1973 Schwinn Collegiate - 1974 Schwinn Suburban

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked 372 Times in 177 Posts
Well, the tires were HARD to get on the rim. I just don't want to find out the hard way if I can help it. They are currently on and inflated to 90 psi, I don't know how they will react to being ridden though.
__________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
mkeller234 is offline  
Old 03-24-10, 07:28 PM
  #4  
Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 23,523

Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more

Mentioned: 96 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1236 Post(s)
Liked 963 Times in 628 Posts
Just be sure to inflate with a floor pump and not an air compressor. I have had problems getting a tire seated on hookless rims when I use my compressor. I used to run 100 psi plus on my hookless Araya rims on my 1975 Peugeot back when it was new, without ever having a problem.
wrk101 is offline  
Old 03-24-10, 07:29 PM
  #5  
Rustbelt Rider
Thread Starter
 
mkeller234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 9,104

Bikes: 1990 Trek 1420 - 1978 Raleigh Professional - 1973 Schwinn Collegiate - 1974 Schwinn Suburban

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked 372 Times in 177 Posts
Yeah, I am having trouble getting the sidewalls even. Any tips?
__________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
mkeller234 is offline  
Old 03-24-10, 07:48 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
fender1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Berwyn PA
Posts: 6,408

Bikes: I hate bikes!

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 431 Post(s)
Liked 710 Times in 233 Posts
Did you try wetting the bead w/ soapy water? That can help sometimes. If it were me, I would try 90psi and not ride to hard. See what happens....
fender1 is offline  
Old 03-24-10, 07:55 PM
  #7  
Rustbelt Rider
Thread Starter
 
mkeller234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 9,104

Bikes: 1990 Trek 1420 - 1978 Raleigh Professional - 1973 Schwinn Collegiate - 1974 Schwinn Suburban

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked 372 Times in 177 Posts
Originally Posted by fender1
Did you try wetting the bead w/ soapy water? That can help sometimes. If it were me, I would try 90psi and not ride to hard. See what happens....
I'll give that a shot. These rims/tires are maddening! Not only is there a flat spot the tread is not centered either!!
__________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
mkeller234 is offline  
Old 03-24-10, 08:15 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Denver, Co.
Posts: 699
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a pair of Weinman concaves that I used to be able to put 130 psi in but on some modern Vredstein's I can only get in about 80 psi or they will come loose, and blow the tube...
So as above , lower air pressure,,
Bud
oldster is offline  
Old 03-24-10, 08:19 PM
  #9  
Rustbelt Rider
Thread Starter
 
mkeller234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 9,104

Bikes: 1990 Trek 1420 - 1978 Raleigh Professional - 1973 Schwinn Collegiate - 1974 Schwinn Suburban

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked 372 Times in 177 Posts
I was hoping to get them to 100psi. It sounds like some people have ok results with that so far?
__________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
mkeller234 is offline  
Old 03-24-10, 08:26 PM
  #10  
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,481

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7335 Post(s)
Liked 2,433 Times in 1,420 Posts
There was a time when 70psi was high pressure. That's probably what Raleigh was saying. I would consider replacing the rims if they can't hold modern tires on.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 03-24-10, 08:44 PM
  #11  
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,496

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2412 Post(s)
Liked 4,374 Times in 2,086 Posts
If the Pascelas sit very tight in those Weinmann rims, you're better off - you'll be more likely to be able to pump them up past 80PSI (though I still don't recommend it).

-Kurt
__________________












cudak888 is offline  
Old 03-25-10, 04:55 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
randyjawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Posts: 11,674

Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma

Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1372 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,747 Times in 937 Posts
Yeah, I am having trouble getting the sidewalls even. Any tips?
Try using talcum powder on the inner tube(put some baby powder in a plastic bag along with the inner tube and shake it up). Some of the talcum will transfer to the tire bead, and the hooks once the inner tube is slipped into its fit.

The talcum will act as a non invasive lubricant, preventing the tube from sticking to the tire. Also, it will help to lubricate the bead to hook fit, and just might allow for easier fit. And, there is an additional advantage to the soap suggested (that will work only one time). The talcum will still be powder when it is time to fix a flat. The question you need to ask yourself is can you fix a flat on the road?

If the tire is that difficult to get onto the rim, while working in the shop, how much more difficult will it be to work with in the field and with no soap? Now would be the best time to figure this out.

I have run up against this situation and in both directions. Some modern tires, most of which are pretty standard sized in today's industry, just will not work properly on vintage rims. The standardization of the vintage rim is often questionable. I have had rims/tire installations so tight that I broke tire levers. And others so loose, that the bead/hook would just not work consistently. Inconsistency with this fit is dangerous, to say the least.
randyjawa is offline  
Old 03-25-10, 05:52 AM
  #13  
Death fork? Naaaah!!
 
top506's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The other Maine, north of RT 2
Posts: 5,320

Bikes: Seriously downsizing.

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 556 Post(s)
Liked 622 Times in 279 Posts
Originally Posted by randyjawa
I have had rims/tire installations so tight that I broke tire levers. And others so loose, that the bead/hook would just not work consistently. Inconsistency with this fit is dangerous, to say the least.
I had a set of older hooked Mavic 27" rims (came on a Viscount) that would not seat ANYTHING at over 80 psi. And yes, they were 27" and not 700c.
On the other hand, I've had good luck running 27x1 1/8" Pasalas at 100 psi on hookless Aryra rims, and 27x 1 1/4" Conti Gatorskins on Weinmans as well.

Top
__________________
You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.

(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
top506 is offline  
Old 03-25-10, 10:48 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Walnut, CA
Posts: 174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have araya rims that are not just flat but almost in a v shape( which I'm replacing ) and then there are the rims that have the bump on the inside wall which I'm not.
arborohs is offline  
Old 03-25-10, 10:58 AM
  #15  
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,496

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2412 Post(s)
Liked 4,374 Times in 2,086 Posts
Originally Posted by arborohs
I have araya rims that are not just flat but almost in a v shape( which I'm replacing ) and then there are the rims that have the bump on the inside wall which I'm not.
Huh?

-Kurt
__________________












cudak888 is offline  
Old 03-25-10, 11:10 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
southpawboston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Somerville, MA and Catskill Mtns
Posts: 4,134
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times in 89 Posts
i have a set of weinmann concaves with an old set of continental sports. i've kept them at 75psi with no lifting and no seating problems. however, i'm reluctant to test the limits and go higher.
southpawboston is offline  
Old 03-25-10, 11:15 AM
  #17  
Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 23,523

Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more

Mentioned: 96 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1236 Post(s)
Liked 963 Times in 628 Posts
Back in the mid 1970s, I routinely kept my Peugeot with hookless rims at 100 psi to 110 psi. I used to run Michelin Elan tires, which were about 27 - 1 inch as I recall. Never had a problem.
wrk101 is offline  
Old 03-25-10, 11:22 AM
  #18  
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,481

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7335 Post(s)
Liked 2,433 Times in 1,420 Posts
I would test by inflating to increasing pressure. Pump to 80, leave overnight. Next night, pump to 100, etc. Eventually, you should be able to go to 130 or 140. In theory, if it holds at 100, it should hold at 140, and that might be equivalent to riding at 100.

Does anyone have opinions on my theories?
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 03-25-10, 11:26 AM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Posts: 10,303
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 41 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by noglider
There was a time when 70psi was high pressure. That's probably what Raleigh was saying. I would consider replacing the rims if they can't hold modern tires on.
^ I think this should be the primary consideration when pumping up modern tires on old hookless rims.
auchencrow is offline  
Old 03-25-10, 12:47 PM
  #20  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,774

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3580 Post(s)
Liked 3,393 Times in 1,927 Posts
Originally Posted by mkeller234
I was hoping to get them to 100psi. It sounds like some people have ok results with that so far?
I run the tires on my Weinmann concave hookless rims at 90-100psi without problems.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 03-25-10, 02:37 PM
  #21  
perpetually frazzled
 
mickey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Linton, IN
Posts: 2,467

Bikes: 1977 Bridgestone Kabuki Super Speed; 1979 Raleigh Professional; 1983 Raleigh Rapide mixte; 1974 Peugeot UO-8; 1993 Univega Activa Trail; 1972 Raleigh Sports; 1967 Phillips; 1981 Schwinn World Tourist; 1976 Schwinn LeTour mixte; 1964 Western Flyer

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888
Huh?

-Kurt

I'm thinking this:


mickey85 is offline  
Old 03-25-10, 03:53 PM
  #22  
Rustbelt Rider
Thread Starter
 
mkeller234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 9,104

Bikes: 1990 Trek 1420 - 1978 Raleigh Professional - 1973 Schwinn Collegiate - 1974 Schwinn Suburban

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked 372 Times in 177 Posts
Thank you for all of the advice. I am going to give Randy's talc tip a try since the rear wheel is still on goofy. Both tires sat at 100psi throughout the night with no issues, so we will see how they react to ridding. The scary thing is, I have a Weinmann concave rim and I never notice it was hookless. I had a 700x25c pasela tire mounted on it inflated to 110psi! I rode it around none the wiser and made it out ok!
__________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
mkeller234 is offline  
Old 03-25-10, 04:46 PM
  #23  
Senior Member
 
Oldpeddaller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maidstone, Kent, England
Posts: 2,637

Bikes: 1970 Holdsworth Mistral, Vitus 979, Colnago Primavera, Corratec Hydracarbon, Massi MegaTeam, 1935 Claud Butler Super Velo, Carrera Virtuoso, Viner, 1953 Claud Butler Silver Jubilee, 1954 Holdsworth Typhoon, 1966 Claud Butler Olympic Road, 1982 Claud

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by mkeller234
My 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport still has it's original 27in alloy Weinmann rims, with no hooks. I am (hoping) to replace the knobby kenda tires on it with some 27x1 Panaracer pasela tires that I have. I am not sure about inflating the tires above 85psi.

The only thing that makes me hopeful is the original catalog I have here. The catalog refers to the rims as "high pressure" and the bike originally came with High pressure Clement tires.

So... bad idea? I just can't understand why a bike with butted Reynolds 531 tubes would come with rims that limit the tire pressure?
Back in the early 1970's, 85psi was "high pressure". High Pressure tubes had Presta valves, not Woods or Schrader valves. If you wanted faster tyres with 100psi plus pressures (and I always did) you had to fit tubulars, which were glued on. The rule was that you pumped the high pressure type tyres up as hard as you could with your plastic frame pump and hose type adaptor - you'd be doing really well to get more than 80psi in!
Oldpeddaller is offline  
Old 03-25-10, 04:53 PM
  #24  
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,481

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7335 Post(s)
Liked 2,433 Times in 1,420 Posts
Remember the Michelin Fifty? It was rated at 70 psi, and it would blow off easily. There was a Hutchinson tire that was even more ready to blow.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 03-25-10, 07:05 PM
  #25  
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,496

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2412 Post(s)
Liked 4,374 Times in 2,086 Posts
Originally Posted by noglider
Remember the Michelin Fifty? It was rated at 70 psi, and it would blow off easily.
That's why they called it the 50.

-Kurt
__________________












cudak888 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.