Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

6 speed to 7 speed help

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

6 speed to 7 speed help

Old 04-06-10, 09:07 AM
  #26  
PanGalacticGargleBlaster
 
Zaphod Beeblebrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Smugglers Notch, Vermont
Posts: 7,536

Bikes: Upright and Recumbent....too many to list, mostly Vintage.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by woodenidol
Im not sure the situation is hard, so much as I evidently lack the experience in doing this to just charge ahead. smile.

There is only one spacer on each side of the hub, and it does not appear that a single mm will do the trick, but I will find out later this evening with any luck.
I don't mean your experience... I mean some of the suggestions you are getting make it sound like this is Rocket Surgery. Just trying to assure you....it isn't.
Zaphod Beeblebrox is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 09:10 AM
  #27  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
woodenidol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 193

Bikes: Schwinn Madison, Schwinn Tempo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Dont worry, no offense taken I assure you. I think my initial problem was I thought it would just go on and need no tinkering, when it didnt, I became flumoxed. lol.

Think I will pick up some spacers before heading home and have a go at it again if time permits.
woodenidol is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 09:14 AM
  #28  
FBoD Member at Large
 
khatfull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Woodbury, MN
Posts: 6,246
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by woodenidol
I think my initial problem was I thought it would just go on and need no tinkering, when it didnt, I became flumoxed. lol.
Dude. Tinkering is the JOY of C&V...if you want easy buy a modern TrekSpecGiantDale.
khatfull is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 09:16 AM
  #29  
Iconoclast
 
rat fink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: California
Posts: 3,183

Bikes: Colnago Super, Fuji Opus III, Specialized Rockhopper, Specialized Sirrus (road)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well, if you can't get your setup to work for you, I have lots of 7 speed stuff that I'm trying to get rid of that I will let you have for cheap if you want: wheels, cassettes, freewheels, etc.
rat fink is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 09:24 AM
  #30  
Iconoclast
 
rat fink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: California
Posts: 3,183

Bikes: Colnago Super, Fuji Opus III, Specialized Rockhopper, Specialized Sirrus (road)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by EjustE

-Those brifters (and need to know which ones they are) were very likely made to work with super SLR brakes. Make sure you got super SLR brakes (dual pivot on)
Maybe so, but the brake levers don't care what calipers (or other brakes) you use as long as they use close to the same cable pull. Generally, road stuff works with road stuff and mtb with mtb.
rat fink is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 09:59 AM
  #31  
Senior Member
 
canopus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kingwood, TX
Posts: 1,592

Bikes: Road, Touring, BMX, Cruisers...

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked 172 Times in 110 Posts
Originally Posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
Add spacers to the drive side until the small cog doesn't rub the stays, remove that amount of spacers from the nondrive side, Then redish the wheel.
I disagree. There should be no reason to have to re-dish a 6spd to 7spd freewheel wheel. None. That is hard (to re-dish) and that was my point.

To the OP. If you could post up pictures when the bike is together and also of the separate pieces (wheel, freewheel, both sides of the axle) it might help those of us who don't understand the spacing issues you are having.
__________________
1984 Cannondale ST
1985 Cannondale SR300
1980 Gary Littlejohn Cruiser
1984 Trek 760
1981 Trek 710
Pics
canopus is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 10:22 AM
  #32  
PanGalacticGargleBlaster
 
Zaphod Beeblebrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Smugglers Notch, Vermont
Posts: 7,536

Bikes: Upright and Recumbent....too many to list, mostly Vintage.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
I don't consider re-dishing a wheel difficult so I guess its a matter of opinion.
Zaphod Beeblebrox is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 10:52 AM
  #33  
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,534

Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1589 Post(s)
Liked 2,164 Times in 1,078 Posts
Here is an example of a 126 spaced frame with 6sp to 7 spd upgrade. Your pics of the same view would be helpful:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
7 Spd..jpg (96.3 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg
6 Speed..jpg (75.9 KB, 24 views)
SJX426 is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 11:23 AM
  #34  
Senior Member
 
canopus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kingwood, TX
Posts: 1,592

Bikes: Road, Touring, BMX, Cruisers...

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked 172 Times in 110 Posts
Originally Posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
I don't consider re-dishing a wheel difficult so I guess its a matter of opinion.
Well it's not if you know how to but if you don't... then the spacing option is so much easier and faster. Especially if you have never built a wheel, or trued a wheel or dished a wheel. Spacing (10 minutes slow), spacing and re-dishing a wheel (30 to 60 minutes?)
__________________
1984 Cannondale ST
1985 Cannondale SR300
1980 Gary Littlejohn Cruiser
1984 Trek 760
1981 Trek 710
Pics
canopus is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 11:25 AM
  #35  
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,407 Times in 908 Posts
Stick a 1mm spacer on the R axle end, install your brifters, adjust and ride.
Calipers will work, chain will be close but OK.
For 1mm, ignore the dish.
Enjoy.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 12:06 PM
  #36  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
woodenidol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 193

Bikes: Schwinn Madison, Schwinn Tempo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SJX426
Here is an example of a 126 spaced frame with 6sp to 7 spd upgrade. Your pics of the same view would be helpful:

I think I will take some pictures. If had the spacing you had, I would jump for joy. Space I had from the 6 speed is less than you show on your new 7 speed picture. Which is making me wonder if the wheel that was on there, was possibly not adjusted right to begin with and why the frame seems to be spread more than it needs to be. This was not the original wheel, as dad taco'd his on a RR track 20 years ago.
woodenidol is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 12:12 PM
  #37  
FBoD Member at Large
 
khatfull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Woodbury, MN
Posts: 6,246
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Does it rub on the seat stays or chain stays? Is this a very small frame?
khatfull is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 12:12 PM
  #38  
Iconoclast
 
rat fink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: California
Posts: 3,183

Bikes: Colnago Super, Fuji Opus III, Specialized Rockhopper, Specialized Sirrus (road)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What model frame are you working with?
rat fink is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 12:13 PM
  #39  
FBoD Member at Large
 
khatfull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Woodbury, MN
Posts: 6,246
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by rat fink
What model frame are you working with?
Are we going down the same path?
khatfull is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 01:16 PM
  #40  
Senior Member
 
Shp4man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,050

Bikes: 1989 Schwinn World Sport. 1994 Diamond Back Response Elite MTB. 1964 Schwinn Typhoon. 1974 Bridgestone Sprinter, 2015 Scott Sub 10 Citybike.

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1687 Post(s)
Liked 78 Times in 34 Posts
Originally Posted by A.Winthrop
.
.
+1... I just did a 6- to 7-spd conversion on a 1987 Centurion
LeMans, also upgrading to a Shimano HG 14-28T freewheel. When
I first spun the new freewheel on, it rubbed a little and I
thought I'd have to put a spacer or two in. But then I tried
torquing it up with my 10" adjustable wrench and removal
tool and that created a mm of clearance (and with no chain
rub). With my 6-spd freewheels, I usually just spin them
on by hand and there's enough clearance to get up and running
and then I let the cranks and chain torque the freewheel
into place. But on this particular bike, I had to tighten
it more to get enough initial clearance to ride. Once in
the saddle, the freewheel moved further up on the hub's
threads, creating another mm or so after 25 miles.
.
So try the easy way first. If that doesn't work, try a
spacer.
.
What shifters/derailleur did you use? Are we talking indexed shifting here?
Shp4man is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 01:20 PM
  #41  
PanGalacticGargleBlaster
 
Zaphod Beeblebrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Smugglers Notch, Vermont
Posts: 7,536

Bikes: Upright and Recumbent....too many to list, mostly Vintage.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by canopus
Well it's not if you know how to but if you don't... then the spacing option is so much easier and faster. Especially if you have never built a wheel, or trued a wheel or dished a wheel. Spacing (10 minutes slow), spacing and re-dishing a wheel (30 to 60 minutes?)
Definitely.



I suppose we should ask the question... .What's the rear spacing? 120mm or 126mm?

I think we're all assuming 126mm but if its 120 the OP might as well stop trying now 7 speed on 120mm isn't gonna happen.
Zaphod Beeblebrox is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 01:27 PM
  #42  
Senior Member
 
canopus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kingwood, TX
Posts: 1,592

Bikes: Road, Touring, BMX, Cruisers...

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked 172 Times in 110 Posts
Originally Posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
I suppose we should ask the question... .What's the rear spacing? 120mm or 126mm?

I think we're all assuming 126mm but if its 120 the OP might as well stop trying now 7 speed on 120mm isn't gonna happen.
True. I assumed 126 since he said it was a 1987 Centurion LeMans and I don't know of anything made with 120 spacing in '87
__________________
1984 Cannondale ST
1985 Cannondale SR300
1980 Gary Littlejohn Cruiser
1984 Trek 760
1981 Trek 710
Pics
canopus is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 01:46 PM
  #43  
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,534

Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1589 Post(s)
Liked 2,164 Times in 1,078 Posts
OK here is a 120 spacing with Ultra 6:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
LC_RrDrl_04..jpg (96.1 KB, 10 views)
SJX426 is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 01:47 PM
  #44  
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,407 Times in 908 Posts
If it's an '87 Lemans, he won't need to do a thing, except get a 7/8 sp chain so it will stop rubbing.

Let's make it simple, with some basic information:

The 1987 Lemans had a 7-sp Uniglide cassette mounted to an Exage rear wheel, bronze anodized Araya 700c box-section rims.

Get a 7/8-sp chain, your 7-sp wheel should fit right in there, and likely not rub.
Any small hub variance that causes rubbing should be about 1mm, in which case a 9 cent washer will work.

If you take off the rear wheel, and swap in, say, a Matrix Titan with a 7-sp Sante freewheel, you should be fine.

If your swapped-in freewheel or cassette has a starting cog at 14t, that could be a problem, but it's most likely a fat 6-sp chain.

THIS is a 1987 Lemans. 126mm rear width.
It had the rear wheel outlined above. It now has the other rear wheel I outlined above.
It has 3x7 STI shifters. It has a 7/8 speed chain. I didn't do a durn other thing to it.
If your only problem is chain rub, address that by seeing where it's rubbing and why.

It can only be two things: width and/or height.
Width can be spaced, but make sure the cassette is properly seated.
Height can be changed with a smaller outside cog.

Neither are complicated. Let's not geek this guy out. He's a Centurion owner and it will work.

RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 01:49 PM
  #45  
My bikes became Vintage
 
OLDYELLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,137
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Here is the difference in width between a Suntour 6-speed, a Shimano 7-speed and a Shimano 6-speed. I went from that Suntour 6-speed to the Shimano 7-speed and the chain rubbed hard on the inside of the bottom of the seatstay, even though if was made flattened for clearance. I solved the problem by adding about 1 mm of washers in the RH side of the axle stackup. Never did anything with the dish and the amount of force needed to spread the rear when inserting the wheel is minimal. If the OP started out with a narrower 6-speed, like the Shimano on the right, it would take more spacers and maybe more effort to get the wheel in and maybe a dish correction.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
fw_dims.jpg (96.1 KB, 13 views)
OLDYELLR is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 04:57 PM
  #46  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
woodenidol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 193

Bikes: Schwinn Madison, Schwinn Tempo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts


6speed 7speed axle



Ok, sorry my information was not cleary presented earlier (or likely now).

1987 Schwinn Tempo. 58cm Frame. 125mm drop out spacing. Until days ago, bike was original except for bio pace chainrings and wheelset.

What I have discovered! The axle is spaced for 120mm! Im thinking dad bought a 120mm wheel when he taco'd the other one, and is why the clearance was already so close.

MY question now is how best to proceed. New wheel, just new axle?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
008..jpg (80.3 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg
009..jpg (87.8 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg
007..jpg (85.0 KB, 9 views)
woodenidol is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 05:11 PM
  #47  
PanGalacticGargleBlaster
 
Zaphod Beeblebrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Smugglers Notch, Vermont
Posts: 7,536

Bikes: Upright and Recumbent....too many to list, mostly Vintage.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Robbie, great post. That was everything that should have been mentioned at least 40 posts ago.

...only now the OP has to go and throw a wrench in the works

Thats a pretty hilarious development.

The very dead simplest thing you could do would be to go run out and buy a new 7 speed 126mm spaced rear wheel. Thats also the most expensive route, but it solves the issue

everything else will require a degree of wrenching...you could:

put on a new axle
or
get a new hub and rebuild the existing rim with the new hub - a good opportunity to switch to a freehub if you are so inclined


Maillard makes some nice hubs....post a pic of the hub if you can...if its really nice we might try and talk you out of getting a new wheel.
Zaphod Beeblebrox is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 05:21 PM
  #48  
Iconoclast
 
rat fink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: California
Posts: 3,183

Bikes: Colnago Super, Fuji Opus III, Specialized Rockhopper, Specialized Sirrus (road)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
The very dead simplest thing you could do would be to go run out and buy a new 7 speed 126mm spaced rear wheel. Thats also the most expensive route, but it solves the issue
Not necessarily, I'm offering this 7 speed cassette freehub wheel with a low mileage cassette for cheap if the OP is interested. Araya 700c laced to Exage freehub...
rat fink is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 05:43 PM
  #49  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
woodenidol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 193

Bikes: Schwinn Madison, Schwinn Tempo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I found it rather humorous myself. I had an inkling something was wrong as I was out working today, and stopped by the local bike co-op. Lots of old axles to be had. also priced a new wheel set for a freewheel, $135. Now I will try to get pictue of the hub that will be clear enough to see.



Neither are complicated. Let's not geek this guy out. He's a Centurion owner and it will work.


This made me laugh. I rode with a guy 20 some years ago when I had my Trek. I always felt my bike superior to his. Now I see I am categorized as a Noob Centurion owner who is easily confused! ROFL. I understand the sentiment though and it is probably aplicable to me. Now I have noticed dad was riding with his wheel offset, and rubbed through the paint and some chainstay metal of the tube. Ack, Im starting to think I should have bought the Trek 560 I was going to upgrade!
woodenidol is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 05:56 PM
  #50  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
woodenidol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 193

Bikes: Schwinn Madison, Schwinn Tempo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts


Hub, not sure what view gives you enough info to determine how good the hub maybe.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
010..jpg (84.2 KB, 9 views)
woodenidol is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.