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VO getting a little bit "touchy"

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VO getting a little bit "touchy"

Old 04-23-10, 05:24 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by ftwelder
a copy is a copy is a copy, no high ground here..
Another one.
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Old 04-23-10, 05:59 AM
  #27  
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Stronglight abandoned the 49D decades ago. In my view, it is more of an homage to the 49D. I'm glad VO is making 50.4 crankset and rings.
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Old 04-23-10, 06:11 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by redxj
Was the Stronglight 49 D first or was that just a copy of another crank. Bike companies have been "borrowing" others designs since the first bike. The 50.4mm BCD 5 pin crankset has been around for decades and was copied by many companies. Similiar 50.4mm cranks include: TA Cyclotouriste, TA Criterium, Stronglight 49D, Nervar 631/633, Magistroni (cottered), Lambert, Sugino Pro Dynamic, Sugino PX, and the Shimano Deore FC-DE20/21/30/31. All used the similar 50.4mm arm to ring attachment and some had different ways to attach the other rings to each other. Most of the rings can be interchanged between different brands as well. Both the VO and Electra design can use original TA and Stronglight rings if one chooses.

TA or Stronglight isn't making them now so I have no problem with someone else doing it. TA still makes the rings for them, but not the cranks. They did a anniversary run and weren't a set of arms only a few hundred bucks! The Electra hubs were made thicker at the flanges because of the original's exploding flanges.
Please, who do you think you are bringing facts into this thread?
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Old 04-23-10, 06:26 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by redxj
Was the Stronglight 49 D first or was that just a copy of another crank. .
This is a 1938 catalog page from the UK. What became 49D later was marketed as Conloy Stronglight (so it is a 70+ year old concept and the design has not changed that much) :

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Old 04-23-10, 07:35 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois
Another one.
For us dimwits, another "what"?
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Old 04-23-10, 08:31 AM
  #31  
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Another one that doesn't get it.

Supplying parts for building bikes in the classic French style is a specialty for VO. Those that get it understand that it's only natural for them to supply parts that resemble classic French parts.

It's not copying, it's an homage in the French sense of the word.

Last edited by Grand Bois; 04-23-10 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 04-23-10, 08:50 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois
Supplying parts for building bikes in the classic French style is a specialty for VO. Those that get it understand that it's only natural for them to supply parts that resemble classic French parts.
The irony of that is that most of their parts will not fit classic French bikes...

In addition their best selling frame is in the classic 90s japanese hybrid style, they have a ton of fixie supplies and I would highly doubt that even 1% of the products they sell are made in France.

There is a fine line between inspiration/passion/authenticity and pretentiousness/wannabe-ness...
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Old 04-23-10, 08:54 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll
which crank is he talking about? I don't see a Grand Cru crankset on their page.
Originally Posted by repechage
Got to go to their blog pages
OH not a bad looking crankset. I don't get the 34/48t wheels but I guess that is retro compact? or is it typical of a '60-70s era road or randoneurerer to have that size combination?
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Old 04-23-10, 08:54 AM
  #34  
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What gets me is how some of the generally nice members of this forum become jerks when this subject comes up. There is no reason why these components should elicit replies that are worthy of a P&R discussion.

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Old 04-23-10, 09:07 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Noah Scape
Stronglight abandoned the 49D decades ago. In my view, it is more of an homage to the 49D. I'm glad VO is making 50.4 crankset and rings.
That's how I see it...it gives you the chance to get parts that you otherwise would never be able to find new for a price that's high, but manageable. I really like what VO does and I'm sure I'll be very grateful to them when I evenutally make an homage rando.

The VO rack that I got for my Koga-Miyata looks terrific btw.
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Old 04-23-10, 09:33 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois
Another one that doesn't get it.

Supplying parts for building bikes in the classic French style is a specialty for VO. Those that get it understand that it's only natural for them to supply parts that resemble classic French parts.

It's not copying, it's an homage in the French sense of the word.
I guess I misunderstood the drift of this thread. I thought the point was that it was ironic that VO snarks about Electra copying their designs when VO, by their admission and by your description, focuses on reproducing the other peoples designs, whether a direct knock-off, tribute, homage, etc. And what chaps some people in this is that some of the VO products bear a striking resemblance not just to the 50's french stuff, but to other current homage/tribute products.

Again, not that there isn't anything wrong with that, fast following seems to be part of their model and is a time-honored practice in the bicycle industry, but the part that some find ironic is that VO then turns around and complains when Electra appears to have perhaps ran the same game plan on VO.

But maybe I misunderstood what this thread was about. Me, I think most of their stuff is pretty decent, some of it is very nice, some of it is costume jewelry, just like most other vendor components.
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Old 04-23-10, 09:36 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by cudak888
What gets me is how some of the generally nice members of this forum become jerks when this subject comes up. There is no reason why these components should elicit replies that are worthy of a P&R discussion.
Strong agreement here.

Parts company sells parts. Don't like the parts? Don't like the company? Don't buy the parts.
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Old 04-23-10, 09:49 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by robatsu
I guess I misunderstood the drift of this thread. I thought the point was that it was ironic that VO snarks about Electra copying their designs when VO, by their admission and by your description, focuses on reproducing the other peoples designs, whether a direct knock-off, tribute, homage, etc. And what chaps some people in this is that some of the VO products bear a striking resemblance not just to the 50's french stuff, but to other current homage/tribute products.

Again, not that there isn't anything wrong with that, fast following seems to be part of their model and is a time-honored practice in the bicycle industry, but the part that some find ironic is that VO then turns around and complains when Electra appears to have perhaps ran the same game plan on VO.

But maybe I misunderstood what this thread was about. Me, I think most of their stuff is pretty decent, some of it is very nice, some of it is costume jewelry, just like most other vendor components.
I read it a little differently...VO wasn't complaining about them reproducing classic parts, they were stating they aren't equal parts and aren't really the same market. They were differentiating their parts from those of a competitor.
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Old 04-23-10, 09:51 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake
I read it a little differently...VO wasn't complaining about them reproducing classic parts, they were stating they aren't equal parts and aren't really the same market. They were differentiating their parts from those of a competitor.
That's how I view it as well.
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Old 04-23-10, 10:10 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by EjustE
The irony of that is that most of their parts will not fit classic French bikes...

In addition their best selling frame is in the classic 90s japanese hybrid style, they have a ton of fixie supplies and I would highly doubt that even 1% of the products they sell are made in France.

There is a fine line between inspiration/passion/authenticity and pretentiousness/wannabe-ness...
1) Actually, they are doing a good job of supplying obsolete products to a niche market. They have their own french thread headsets and bottom brackets, as time goes on I would expect more VO products that address french bikes.

2) I am assuming your comment is in regards to the Polyvalent frame? I will let you be the judge of what style it is, but I would argue that it's not a bad value.

3) How many companies buy parts that are made in france? They have/do sell parts that were manufactured in the USA.

4) So what if they sell fixie supplys? That is a genuine branch of the cycling world and they buy products too.
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Old 04-23-10, 10:14 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Noah Scape
That's how I view it as well.
Ditto. I saw the comment on the blog and was a bit shocked at first. At the same time I am glad that Chris has the fortitude to just say what he wants on his own companies blog. Maybe he is a bit miffed with Electra or maybe he genuinely feels his product is superior.
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Old 04-23-10, 10:24 AM
  #42  
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Gentlemen, please keep a civil tone with each other. I really don't like having to put on my moderator/admin hat when in C&V, I have to do enough of that elsewhere on the site. Thank you.
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Old 04-23-10, 11:32 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by helicomatic
Parts company sells parts. Don't like the parts? Don't like the company? Don't buy the parts.
+1 on that.

However, I'll add that some of the useful product info I get from blogs, forums, etc, is the negative information that never makes it into ad-driven publications. That may help me make an informed decision about a product.
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Old 04-23-10, 12:32 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by cuda2k
Gentlemen, please keep a civil tone with each other. I really don't like having to put on my moderator/admin hat when in C&V, I have to do enough of that elsewhere on the site. Thank you.
I must have missed something.
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Old 04-23-10, 01:31 PM
  #45  
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People want classic looking parts that meet modern standards, company springs up to sell to those people.

Interest grows, other firms enter the now larger market.

Electra stakes out lower ground (generally) price and quality wise, VO makes claims about it's higher quality and lightly disparages the competitions product.



What are we confused about? Isn't this exactly how the free market works?
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Old 04-23-10, 05:05 PM
  #46  
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too bad they didn't make the VO logo look more like the stronglight logo, I think it detracts a little from the cranks. I understand why they didn't go with something more like the TA, you could get stickers and make counterfeit cranks.
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Old 04-23-10, 05:55 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll
OH not a bad looking crankset. I don't get the 34/48t wheels but I guess that is retro compact? or is it typical of a '60-70s era road or randoneurerer to have that size combination?
Nearly every crank I've got that was made in the 70's and 80's has a 52 tooth big ring, but I find that a 34/48 would be ideal for long distance riding. Both of my most-ridden bikes have triples with 48 tooth rings, and I find that I very rarely need more than that, as well as allowing the gears to be more useful. I rarely get out of the big ring when I've got a 48, but with a 52, I find that anything under 15 teeth or so is just plain tiring in the rolling hillsides that I typically ride. Besides, on flat ground, a 48X14 will get me to 30 mph or so before spinning out. How fast do you need to go?

Love it or hate it, if I had $175 and the bike to put it on, I'd buy a set. I feel that the gearing is perfect for those that want to do distance or recreational rides.
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Old 04-23-10, 06:05 PM
  #48  
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redxj: "The 50.4mm BCD 5 pin crankset has been around for decades..." exactly. "TA or Stronglight isn't making them now so I have no problem with someone else doing it. " +100
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Old 04-23-10, 06:58 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by mickey85
I find that a 34/48 would be ideal for long distance riding.
I just set up my Fuji America with a 34/48 on the Sugino Mighty Tour. Fortunately, I had a spindle of the correct length to use this as a double. My first go is using a 11/30 8 speed cassette in the rear. This works pretty good, although the low gear is pretty low for unloaded riding around the DC area. I also find myself not needing the low ring a whole lot, but I'll get on it for some hills or if I'm just sort of ambling around a crowded/congested area. Similarly, I'm not on the 11/48 a whole bunch. I'm thinking something like a 12/28-27 might be perfect.

This is also my first experience friction shifting w/8 speeds since a long time ago on some MTB's and I'm finding it trouble free. Makes me want to try this w/a nine speed cassette, although I hate the idea that I have to get a nine speed chain.
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Old 04-23-10, 07:50 PM
  #50  
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It's typical for a "touring double". Very effective if you don't expect your top end to be more than about 26-28 mph.

Originally Posted by Bianchigirll
OH not a bad looking crankset. I don't get the 34/48t wheels but I guess that is retro compact? or is it typical of a '60-70s era road or randoneurerer to have that size combination?
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