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How to choose a Brooks?

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How to choose a Brooks?

Old 04-25-10, 08:35 PM
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Netdewt
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How to choose a Brooks?

I can't decide which Brooks to get. Any ideas for me? I've got a 1980 Moto Jubilee painted dark gray with dark gray Mavic rims. I'm using it for commuting and recreational/fitness riding. I was thinking of doing a honey seat with honey bar tape. I just don't know which seat to get.

The B17 price is right, but I'm not sure if I like the "wings" on the sides. Then there's the swallow, swift, and team pro. I can't find anything about what the differences are.

Thanks.
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Old 04-25-10, 08:42 PM
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I've ridden a B-72 in an upright only position and loved it. I am currently riding an old Brooks Professional on a bike that I split the riding time btwn the drops and riding on the hoods. The saddle fits my arse like a well worn baseball glove. I love it! A B-17 is next on my to buy list as far as saddles go, I just haven't gotten that far yet. Did you go on Brooks' website? They have great pics that might help you figure out what will cradle your butt the best. Good luck. Hope this helps a bit.
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Old 04-25-10, 09:14 PM
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I'm not sure how to know which would "cradle" best.

"The B17 is our flagship model, ideal for long distance sport touring, trekking and ATB use"... $100
"Swift is one of the first modern gent's racing Brooks saddles"... $150
"Team Professional is a timeless Brooks Saddle for sportive riders"... $150
"The Swallow Classic reproduces the timeless design of the daddy of all modern racing saddles"... $250, really not an option

The descriptions are not great. I'm 6', 160lbs if that helps anyone give me an idea.

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Old 04-25-10, 09:18 PM
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measure your sitbones before you do anything and waste a lot of money.
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Old 04-25-10, 09:20 PM
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Brooks has basically 3 categories:

a.Touring
b.City/Commuting
c.Sports.

A lot of their suggestions have to do with where the saddle is in relation to the handlebars. If it is equal or below, they suggest a or b, depending on use. If it is above, they suggest c.
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Old 04-25-10, 09:21 PM
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How do you measure your sitbones?
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Old 04-25-10, 09:46 PM
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How do you measure your sitbones?
Don't know, don't think I want to!

But....

I'm 6'-2" 240lbs and over 40, I have a B-17 I love it wings and all! Took a 100 miles or so to break it in a bit. The wings can always be easily cut back. I recently purchased a Flyer ( B-17 with springs) for a Clubman style 3 speed, a bit bouncey at first, but after a few weeks I've begun to appreciate the design. My everyday rider has the Swift, feels like the B-17 only prettier and better materials, time will tell if it outlasts the others. My son, 6'-2" and 150 lbs. has a B-17 Narrow and loves it; I tried it and it is way to narrow for my aging body but my son is comfortable on all the Brooks Saddles. Hope my experience helps a bit. BTW when I was shopping the Flyer, the input from the C&V members was excellent! Good luck.
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Old 04-25-10, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Netdewt View Post
How do you measure your sitbones?
there's lots of non-scientific ways to do it. you can try to figure out where your pressure points are on your current saddle and measure it. you can try finding a shop where you can sit on the range of brooks saddles and see which one "fits'.

or you can go to a trek or specialized store where they have a butt measurer.

it took me a while to figure out that b-17 (170mm) saddles are too narrow for me (after i bought a selle anatomica as well). i now ride a b68 and a VO model 8 (among other non-leather saddles). btw, i'm 6'4" and 175lbs.
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Old 04-25-10, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Netdewt View Post
How do you measure your sitbones?
I found three simple methods when I was investigating why I could never get comfortable on a Brooks Professional Saddle, even after 1000+ miles.
1) Sit on some corrugated cardboard on a hard flat surface. When you get up, your sit bones will have left dents in the cardboard that you can measure for width.
2) Sit on a stack of flattened paper towels, the top few of which have been slightly dampened with water. Your sit bones will cause the top layer of moisture to penetrate the furthest down into the stack, leaving damp circles in the lower layers that show how far apart your sit bones are.
3) Go to a bike store that sells Bontrager Inform saddles. They have a a simple gel filled measuring device that you also sit in order to leave sit bone impressions.

I'm 6' 2" and found my sit bones were separated by about 120-123 mm (center to center), by all three methods. However, each sit bone impression is actually about the size of a quarter, and the separation from outer edge to outer edge is larger, more like 155 mm. Although that sounds narrower than the width of a Brooks Professional saddle (160 mm), when I stretched a tape measure across the width of the saddle, it was immediately obvious that my 155 mm width can't fit on Brooks Professional without having the edges of the sit bones being located directly over the metal frame of the saddle, rather than being suspended by the leather of the saddle. No amount of riding/softening/breaking in can solve that basic problem. Many of the other Brooks models are even narrower than the 160 mm wide Brooks Professional (Swallow, Swift, and B17 narrow have listed widths of 153, 152 and 150 mm). In contrast, the B17 has a width of 170 mm, which is just wide enough that my 155 mm sit bone edges are still located entirely on the leather inside the metal frame, rather than located right atop the metal frame. I have found both the B17 saddles to be extremely comfortable, but have to rule out many of the other Brooks models because of the mismatch between the width of my sit bones, and the position of the frame in the narrower saddles.
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Old 04-26-10, 06:42 AM
  #10  
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At 160, I have the feeling that you'll have a LOT of sore riding to do before you break in a professional. Those things are really, really stiff. The B17 is thinner, and more comfortable. I've got about 500 miles on it (treated only with shoe polish and proofide) that is already mostly broken in. As far as the "wings" - they don't stick out, and don't hinder comfort at all. From a riding perspective, they don't really do much other than stiffen the top. From an aesthetics perspective...well...if you can see your saddle, you should be riding more!
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Old 04-26-10, 06:57 AM
  #11  
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If you are riding around on a drop handlebar bike for recreational/commuting/fitness, the odds are very, very good that a Brooks B-17 is going to work out for you if any leather saddle will. Just get a plain jane one, no fancy rivets or anything, maybe pick up a slightly used one on ebay. If that doesn't work out, sell it off and then start with some of the more specialized saddles.
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Old 04-26-10, 07:52 AM
  #12  
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The best advice I can offer, regarding Brooks saddles, would be to take nobody's advice about Brooks saddles.

Yes, seriously, I mean that.

Much of the debate is about "breaking it in." How long does it take, what's the best way to do it, etc. In my experience, they do not break in; they soften. Some soften more than others, and all are better before they soften.

Then there's the debate about the shape. The 'pro' family has one shape, the B17 has another... which is better?

Then there's the debate about the leather. Is the leather in the 'pro' family thicker or harder than the leather in the B17 family? People say it is; Brooks does not.

Then there's the (mostly absent) debate about quality and age. Are current Brooks saddles as good as the ones made 30 years ago? In my experience, they are not; but my experience is too subjective to be of any use to anyone, including me.

I have four Brooks saddles that I've ridden a lot in the last few years, and they are all different; different models, different ages. And they're on different bikes that I rode on different days in different weather.

If I were buying a new Brooks saddle, it would probably be a new Professional or a NOS (minimum 30 years old) B17. But that's mostly because I'd like to compare them to the ones I already have.
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Old 04-26-10, 08:30 AM
  #13  
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I tried to measure... around 105mm c-c, so I should be good on any of them I would think.

The B17 is nice, it just doesn't look as racy as, say, the Swift. The wings/skirts just make it look larger. I have drop bars and my seat is slightly above them.

I think I've narrowed down to the Swift or the B17, but maybe there are other brands I should consider?


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Old 04-26-10, 08:42 AM
  #14  
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No!

The Regal is not a leather saddle; it's a padded plastic saddle with a leather cover. Totally different item. The advantage of a leather saddle is that the leather breathes; the Regal won't.

Center cutouts, as far as I can figure it out, are there to solve an imaginary problem. And the leather they've cut away is structurally important to the saddle, so those saddles won't hold up as well as a whole saddle.
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Old 04-26-10, 08:44 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Netdewt View Post
I think I've narrowed down to the Swift or the B17, but maybe there are other brands I should consider?

Well... I'll take any Regal (or Rolls for that matter) any day over any Brooks. But that's me and saddles are personal. Try a bunch of saddles. Try to see what fits the best for you and get it.
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Old 04-26-10, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Netdewt View Post
I tried to measure... around 105mm c-c, so I should be good on any of them I would think.

The B17 is nice, it just doesn't look as racy as, say, the Swift. The wings/skirts just make it look larger. I have drop bars and my seat is slightly above them.

I think I've narrowed down to the Swift or the B17, but maybe there are other brands I should consider?

I have the An-Atomica BUT the first ones saddle tension screw failed (3000 miles). The replacement (free warranty replacement) screw failed again (2900 miles). The An-Atomica has a maddening squeak as well which requires lubrication frequently. The screw failures were two different types so I'm done with the this saddle. I did like the overall comfort so I purchased the B17 Imperial recently (waiting for it from Wiggle right now). I have a Brooks Swallow that just is a little too hard on my ass. I suspect my age and bike geometry has something to do with the discomfort.
My hope is that the Imperial will work well. I had a B17 Standard that was very comfortable but the rails were too short for seat setback which led me to the An-Atomica. I've made some minor position changes that should solve the rail length issue.
Good luck on your choice, it's quite a convoluted journey based on my personal experience.
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Old 04-26-10, 10:05 AM
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I've only ridden women's Brooks saddles, but FWIW: I have a couple of Brooks Countess saddles, which I think they've discontinued. I like them; I think they're about 175mm wide and have a slightly shorter nose (for a woman's wider sit bones and to allow the wearing of skirts and dresses). The men's were/are the Conquest model, I don't know if they still make those ones. They're supposed to be like the Team Pro with springs. If the leather is thicker than on the B17s, it hasn't bothered me. They were comfortable right out of the box, and have only gotten more so the longer I've had them and ridden on them; there wasn't really a break in period. The only thing that sometimes bothers me is that the springs can be a little too squeaky. I have a B18 lady's saddle as well, which I haven't liked as much. But I also haven't ridden it long enough for it to really break in at all, and it's currently off in a box somewhere because I eventually sold the bike I had it on and don't have one now that it would work on. I bought mine from the overstock lists on the site for Milwaukee Bicycle Co; last I checked they've still got a bunch of brooks saddles for 50% off.
Measuring your sit bone width will help determine what width of saddle to get. Like another poster mentioned above, try to measure the impressions you make from outside to outside, rather than at the deepest point, whatever method you use to do it. Another thing that seems to be important is how you treat the leather; the only thing I've ever used is brooks proofhide. I treat my saddles about once a year, putting on a thick layer, letting it rest overnight, and buffing it off in the morning.
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Old 04-27-10, 01:35 PM
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I have a B-17 but really wanted the sporty look so I had the sides trimmed. Now if it was only the B-17 Narrow but this works otherwise...


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Old 04-27-10, 01:43 PM
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Sporty!

I can't really say much as my B17 is new with only 1 short ride. But I really like it more than the Sefaris that was on it before.
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Old 04-27-10, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Netdewt View Post
I tried to measure... around 105mm c-c,

C-C ? While measuring your butt?

Does C-C stand for Cheek to Cheek?

...sorry I just couldn't resist.


IMHO don't consider any other brands of leather saddle other than Brooks for your first leather saddle. Leather saddles are a wonderful thing, poor quality leather saddles are not. It would be a shame if you were turned off to leather saddles because you went out and saved 25 bux by buying a new Cardiff or Persons saddle.

I've had good experience buying Brooks stuff from https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/ They frequently have the best prices around (depending on how the Dollar is doing)...Even though they are in the UK they still manage to get your order across the pond and to your door nearly as quickly as anyone stateside.
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Old 04-27-10, 02:10 PM
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I've been thinking of getting a Brooks saddle myself. (I have a B17 on my folder, and considering a different Brooks for my road bike). If I buy one, I'll order from Wallingford Bicycle Parts - they have an unconditional 6-month guarantee on any Brooks; if you don't like it for any reason, you can get a refund or trade it for a different saddle. Hard to beat that!

Check it out… https://www.wallbike.com/Brooks.html
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Old 04-27-10, 02:40 PM
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"sit bones" are properly called ischial tuberosities!

..for what it's worth...
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Old 04-27-10, 07:54 PM
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i second wallbike.com. i exchanged a saddle after almost 6 months, no questions, no problems. best way to try a brooks out.
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Old 04-27-10, 08:13 PM
  #24  
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There's a lot of information on the wallbike.com to help you decide which model might suit you. You can save some money by buying one of the returned saddles. They used to sell them on the site, but I think they put them on eBay now. I bought a Team Pro that way.
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Old 04-27-10, 09:12 PM
  #25  
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My ischial tuberosity spacing is such that the 170mm width of a B-17 is just about right for my bikes with dropped bars. However my chunky thighs do best with the narrow nose of the Professional. For me the Team Pro S (for short) gives me the best of both worlds. 170mm wide (The 177mm on the WallBike site is a typo) with a narrow nose. The ones I've got aren't nearly as thick or hard as a "Mens" Team Pro.

Supposedly it's a chick saddle, but it treats my bottom so well I'd ride it if it were pink with little white daises.

BTW hardness varies quite a bit among individual units of the same model. Normally the B72, B66 and B67 are comfortable right out of the box. But a friend recently got a nearly new looking B72 for $5 at a garage sale. You could drive nails with it. As hard as the nastiest Men's Team Pro I've ever seen. If she can figure out how to soften it, she got one heck of a deal.

Originally Posted by DMNHCAGrandPrix View Post
I'm 6' 2" and found my sit bones were separated by about 120-123 mm (center to center), by all three methods. However, each sit bone impression is actually about the size of a quarter, and the separation from outer edge to outer edge is larger, more like 155 mm. Although that sounds narrower than the width of a Brooks Professional saddle (160 mm), when I stretched a tape measure across the width of the saddle, it was immediately obvious that my 155 mm width can't fit on Brooks Professional without having the edges of the sit bones being located directly over the metal frame of the saddle, rather than being suspended by the leather of the saddle. No amount of riding/softening/breaking in can solve that basic problem. Many of the other Brooks models are even narrower than the 160 mm wide Brooks Professional (Swallow, Swift, and B17 narrow have listed widths of 153, 152 and 150 mm). In contrast, the B17 has a width of 170 mm, which is just wide enough that my 155 mm sit bone edges are still located entirely on the leather inside the metal frame, rather than located right atop the metal frame. I have found both the B17 saddles to be extremely comfortable, but have to rule out many of the other Brooks models because of the mismatch between the width of my sit bones, and the position of the frame in the narrower saddles.
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