Another "help, PX-10!" thread!
 

First post!

So, I recently acquired a 1974? PX-10 frameset on the 'bay and I am a bit confused about the dimensions of the tubing. I've scoured the greater parts of the web, but most of what I come up with involves generic discussion of "old French" bikes.

Sheldon Brown lists dimensions for these "old French" bikes, but I'm not sure that this one falls under these restrictions.

The seat tube and stem diameters are "old French" standard, surely, but what about the downtube? Will I be able to slap any ole Campy shifters down there or will I need a set
of proprietary Simplex shifters? How about handlebars? Assuming I grab a proprietary stem
will I have enough wiggle room to use my 26.4mm bars?

Thanks for whatever information you have.

Clamps made for 28.6 mm work fine on 28 mm tubes, in my experience. French stems require French bars. If you don't want to use french bars, you need to sand a 22.2 mm stem down to 22 mm.

My PX10 has Campagnolo Clamp ons and Nitto bars.

http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/43...600x600Q85.jpg

It's probably better to keep it French.

http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/43...600x600Q85.jpg

Welcome to C&V , IsaacOH, and congrats on becoming the proud owner of a PX10! . . . BTW ^ Grand B knows his stuff.

Why do I think that IsaacOH is going to be spending more time here in the next few weeks?

Startin' C&V with a PX-10 is divin' right into the deep end of the pool on opening day!

I s'pose you're right about that Charles - and like so many others, soon he will be saying things like:

"OMG, omg, - I need to install some Japanese parts on it!"
"I just washed my PX10 and I can't do a thing with it!"
"What does INOXYDABLE mean?"
"Can I mount clinchers on these rims?"
- and my favorite:
"Darn this French junk !"

:innocent:

Welcome, Isaac! We love PX-10's!

Tom

Couldn't you tell?

I know the answers to a few of these things...
Undoubtedly, my budget will coerce me into attempting to rig her up with some Japanese accoutrements...
but what's wrong with a good wash?
I get inoxydable, and luckily don't have to fuss with tubulars (as it didn't come with any)
but undoubtedly will utter that last phrase on a few occasions.

But, hey, this is a friendly community ain't it?

Oh, hey, where might I come by those brake housing clamps I see on the top tube? What are those things really called?

Welcome!

My understanding is that you have a frameset only, is this correct?

You have about 3 options to deal with this:

a. Procure and restore it with the original or close to original French components. This is a pricey option because these bits are hard to find and expensive when you find. Places like Velo Orange make reproductions of some older French components that could work on your bike.
b. (welcome to the world of +1) : Look for a high end French bike to use as a component donor. Doesn't have to be Peugeot, Motos and Merciers will be fine.
c. Trade it for an nice Columbus steel italian frameset that fits you and ride happily ever after :)

Your 26.4 Cinelli (I assume) bars will fit only on a Cinelli stem (or a copy, and I am not sure that they made those in French threading)

Top tube brake cable clips.

Thanks, found 'em with a few other expensive goodies at Velo Orange.
Does one usually come by a "parts" bike through the usual channels, i.e. the 'bay?

Noooo... the bay is a horrible place for parts bikes. Craigslist, yard sales and thrift stores are the places to look.

btw, Tom Velo Orange will get a kick by the fact that I sent customers to his company :)

I can tell you about the stems, a little more. The fork very likely requires a quill with diameter 22.0. That's not gonna be negotiable. Most 22.0 stems I've seen have been French-sourced, SR, or some (to me) more obscure Japanese or Taiwanese stem makers. Occasionally on Ebay I've noticed a Cinelli 1A with French quill. If you want to use your 26.4 bars, I've really only found vintage Cinelli stems to have teh right clamp size. Possibly some TTT would work, since there were some odd Ambrosio bars with 26.4 clamps.

I've managed to get 26.4 bars into 26.0 stems, but only with a lot of effort, and at times scratching up the bars on installation. No stem breakage, but I am looking over my shoulder. I don't recommend it.

Most of the Asian stems in 22.0 that I've seen take 25.4 mm 'bars. 26.0 are out there, but seem to be less common, at least in the cheapskate circles I populate.

There were also 21.5 (measured) quills out there. I don't know if they were in tolerance for a nominal 22.0 part, but ... might be worth a try.

I started to cut down an 22.2 SR stem to 22.0, and gave up after a bunch of hours. However, I don't have a lathe or other such power tools.

Seatposts are a crap-shoot, at least in my experience. I have two UO-8s, each of which requiring different seat post diameters, and both different from my 1969 PX-10. Measure the frame carefully, and check that the hole is round. If it's not, your measurements are not reliable unless you work to establish an average reading.

One characteristic of French frames seems to be variability. Sheldon's recommendations may be comprehensive, but you'll need to check your frame yourself. If it doesn't match the "standard," then the standard is not very useful.

If your plan is to get this bike on the road using new or NOS parts, it will be expensive. If you shop used (CR, CL, Ebay and the BF For Sale) for used parts/donor bikes and be judicious, not nearly so much. Consider if your frame looks new. If it doesn't and you're not planning on restoring its finish and decals, a full gruppo of new-finish aluminum will look decidedly out of place, and the bike will look neither new nor well-loved vintage.

If you're looking for utility on the other hand, choose the sorts of parts you need and look for ways to improvise. An example is to use a Shimano 600/6207 aluminum crankset (decent quality by any measure) costing $25 with a compatible BB axle ($2.00 thru @25) with a nearly random set of French BB cups. I did this on my UO-8 with the original UO-8 set of cups, and it works very well. And I didn't spend $50 for a V-O BB combined with maybe $150 (or whatever) for their TA-clone crankset. Many other improvisations are possible, cheap, and functional. Maybe even beautiful.

Save your money for the parts you REALLY can't get. Seatposts come prominently to mind.

Check to see if an Italian/English stem (22.2 shaft diameter) will fit into your steerer tube. I have two French frames (70s and 80s), and both will take the larger size. If you're dealing with a bare frameset, your “French issues” will be the bottom bracket threading, headset of course, and depending on the front derailer, whether the clamp will get tight enough on the seat tube before it bottoms out.

On the BB, you first have to determine which threading Peugeot used on your frame -- at various times I think that they used French, English or even Swiss. The last variant is the worst, regarding getting a new BB. Velo Orange sells cartridge bearing bottom brackets with French cups, but they have JIS-size (Japan Industrial Standard) tapers on the spindle -- whether that's a problem or not depends on the crank arms you intend to use. French loose-ball BBs aren't really made any more., but it's possible to find them, with some patience. English-threaded BBs are ubiquitous. Swiss are the rarest, and hardest to find.

For the headset, if you have the original fork, you're almost certainly going to need a French headset.

You need to measure the seatpost carefully, or have a shop with a graduated post do that -- there's a fair bit of variation depending on year. Sometimes people have overtightened the clamp to fit an undersize post, and that needs to be opened up, and sometimes re-shaped to be round again. The correct diameter post should fit, with very little clearance when everything's right.

Don't expect any help from your local bike shop, unless you are extremely lucky -- the people there like as not will know nothing about these things, and worse yet, may give you really stupid advice. There are exceptions, but like French threading anymore, they're dwindling.

Check out Miamijim's Peugeot website, and VeloBase.com for components. And ask questions here -- yus'll be back, I guarantee it.

Good point, Charles, 22.2 stems just might work. This bike should be looked at as a hand-fitting job, rather than a standards-driven job.

None of my French bikes will take a 22.2 stem. The Stronglight top nuts will allow it, but the steerers won't.

If it's a seventies PX10, the BB threading is French.

You need to be aware that a seventies PX10 will have Simplex dropouts and will only accept Simplex derailers without modification. It never fails that someone will post that all you need to do is tap the mounting hole to 10 mm X 1 mm, but there's more to it than that.

Your seatpost will probably be 26.4 or 26.6. A correct Simplex post may cost more than you paid for the bike.

All of my bikes were built with parts from eBay. Obviously I don't agree that it's a horrible place to get parts.