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Best C&V budget sports tourer?

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Best C&V budget sports tourer?

Old 04-28-10, 11:03 AM
  #1  
swen0171
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Best C&V budget sports tourer?

I'm starting to look for a long ride bike. 50-100 mile rides with a saddle bag (tools, lunch, extra clothes). I've built two vintage touring bikes in the last couple of years (84 Trek 520 and a 84 Nishiki) but I didn't like long wheelbase of the Nishiki and the 520 was too small and too flexy.

So I'm looking for suggestions. I want a stiff steel lugged frame with room for 28s. Not a race bike and not a touring bike. 80s Japanese seems to be the best bet for price and quality. I'd most likely build it with a mix of new and old. I like 7speed friction but I also like new sturdy wheels. Does anyone have a bike like this they want to share?

My budget should be in the $500 range complete.

Specialized Allez

Mid-and up level Miyatas

RB-2?

Where is the hidden deal?

Oh, and I ride a bigger bike 59-60cm
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Old 04-28-10, 11:10 AM
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If you want a stiff lugged steel frame you are looking at frames build with Tange 1, Ishiwata 019, Columbus SL and Reynolds 753. not sure that you will find anything like this in a sports touring configuration... Maybe an early (pre 80s) Trek, maybe some of the 83+ Triple butted Fujis, might be stiff enough. On the other hand, I am not sure why you see the reason for a stiff frame for 50-100 mile rides...
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Old 04-28-10, 11:12 AM
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Yeah a Miyata 610 is a pretty venerable sports tourer but they are more well known for that and may go for more $$

A Raleigh Super Course would probably make a good sports tourer and they can generally be had for not a lot of scratch

or along the same lines possibly a Schwinn Super Sport
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Old 04-28-10, 02:27 PM
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Fuji S12-S

Neal
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Old 04-28-10, 02:48 PM
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schwinn traveler.
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Old 04-28-10, 02:54 PM
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The Miyata 6XX is straight up touring bike geometry. There's nothing 'sport' about it.
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Old 04-28-10, 02:59 PM
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I built up two frames i had this winter. One was an 82 Trek 613 sport touring made out of 531. A really sweet ride for centuries and the like. It seems reasonably stiff to me. I also built up a 81 Nishiki Cresta that is more of a touring frame built out of Tange 1. It's set up as a single speed right now but I am accumulating parts to turn it in to a touring/communting rig. The Nishiki does seem stiffer than the Trek even though it is slightly bigger. It does have a longer wheelbase as well. The Nishiki is the brown one.
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Old 04-28-10, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
The Miyata 6XX is straight up touring bike geometry. There's nothing 'sport' about it.
The folks at the Miyata marketing department disagree
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_whtVpXkKwl...0-h/img085.jpg

Its more 'sport' than its big brother, the 1000, so in the scope of touring bikes it is 'sportier'...
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Old 04-28-10, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox View Post
The folks at the Miyata marketing department disagree
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_whtVpXkKwl...0-h/img085.jpg

Its more 'sport' than its big brother, the 1000, so in the scope of touring bikes it is 'sportier'...
I've sold a few a hundred more of those than you have.....there's nothing sporty about it.

According to the frame geometry for some model years there're......the same:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_whtVpXkKwl...0-h/img217.jpg

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Old 04-28-10, 03:12 PM
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Wasn't trying to make it personal dude, consider me schooled.


**edit**

Your edit provided much appreciated proof!! Thank you!

Any idea what would lead Miyata to call the 610 "sporty" in their literature? Possibly the choice of components versus the 1000? Or just Marketing?

**edit again**

I re-read my post and Just wanna say sorry If I came off snarky. I just got done doing battle with Verizon CABS (T1 Service) on the phone for the last hour and I'm kinda frazzled

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Old 04-28-10, 03:22 PM
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Those marketing guys tended to use terms and words really loosely. Terms like Gran(d), Record, Touring, Tourer, Absolute, Ace, Sport, Deluxe, Lightweight, Custom, Ultra, Supreme, etc., were put on anything, whether it was correct or not. Find two or more of these words in a bike model name, and it is 90% chance that the bike is crap. Example: Fuji Gran Tourer.

To the OP, I would let the deal dictate what you buy. There are many really nice vintage bikes out there. Since you will be looking for a specific size, I would not target any single model or brand. I would just look for the right deal. Buy right, and you should be able to resell the bike later, if your interests change (I have changed my main keeper bikes out about 6 times in the last year)....

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Old 04-28-10, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by EjustE View Post
If you want a stiff lugged steel frame you are looking at frames build with Tange 1, Ishiwata 019, Columbus SL and Reynolds 753. not sure that you will find anything like this in a sports touring configuration... Maybe an early (pre 80s) Trek, maybe some of the 83+ Triple butted Fujis, might be stiff enough. On the other hand, I am not sure why you see the reason for a stiff frame for 50-100 mile rides...
Because you can get bigger tires and lower the tire pressure to soften things up, but can't stiffen your frame up if it's unpleasantly flexy. Personally, I like having my most responsive bike on long rides.
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Old 04-28-10, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
The Miyata 6XX is straight up touring bike geometry. There's nothing 'sport' about it.
A Miyata 710, on the other hand, makes a nice sport tourer:



Going from 27" to 700c leaves plenty of room for fatter tires and fenders.

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Old 04-28-10, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rat fink View Post
Because you can get bigger tires and lower the tire pressure to soften things up, but can't stiffen your frame up if it's unpleasantly flexy. Personally, I like having my most responsive bike on long rides.
My point is that stiff steel frames rarely have been associated with sports/touring (and they do not have rack and fender eyelets). I am with you as far as the personal preference for riding responsive frames even for a century ride (if it is supported enough so I do not have to carry much on the bike or in my pockets ). But... if the OP goes Italian race bike (highly stiff and responsive geometry - which I love, btw), his requirement to carry "tools, lunch, extra clothes" kind goes out of the window...
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Old 04-28-10, 04:42 PM
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how many tools do you intend to carry? most riders I used to ride with would do 100mi with a large seat bag. I've done 100milers with 2 spare tubulars, spoke wrench, folding allen tool and some pocket money.

did you look at the early '90s Bianchi Eros? these are fabulous sport touring bikes. great road geomentry but with eyelets for a rear rack. in cact if you keep your load under 30 to 40 lbs almost any good steel road bike should work.
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Old 04-28-10, 05:01 PM
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If you can live with welded aluminum, you might want to look at a Klein Performance bike. Very stiff with long chainstays, plenty of room for wide tires and eyelets for racks. But since it's aluminum, you cannot cold set it to 130mm if you decide you want to use a modern drivetrain.
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Old 04-28-10, 06:35 PM
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I'm on track to build my 88 Peugeot Nice as a sports tourer. putting a more modern 105 triple on it and a few other things. I have high hopes....
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Old 04-28-10, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rat fink View Post
Because you can get bigger tires and lower the tire pressure to soften things up, but can't stiffen your frame up if it's unpleasantly flexy. Personally, I like having my most responsive bike on long rides.
Thanks! You said exactly what I was trying to say. I like a really stiff frame with larger tires (maybe even 32s if they would fit). To me it feels like the bike will respond well to climbing and power and yet still float a bit. Flexy frames just bug me and newer super sturdy frames like a surly LHT don't have much personality to me. Maybe I'm crazy or too picky.
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Old 04-28-10, 07:57 PM
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'87 Lemans RS with RSX 3x7 triple. I have about $250 in it.
Fenders will fit, maybe not with 28's. (Those are 25's on it).
Only one eylet front and rear, but my guess is you can outfit it under your budget quite easily.
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Old 04-28-10, 08:04 PM
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The Univega Viva Touring from the early '80s seems to fit your requirements. Fender & rack eyelets, canti mounts, but the geometry isn't too far down the touring direction. However, I'm with wrk101; you need to cast your net widely, and see what it brings in.
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Old 04-28-10, 08:26 PM
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Look for a Schwinn Voyaguer, the later ones were Columbus Tenax, and the early ones were just plane ole' Schwinn blend Cro-Mo. I have an old one, and while it is more of a sport tourer than the later ones, it does not meet the tubing criteria you mentioned, it is a nice bike though, pretty light, and since I have 700's on it now, there's room for 700 x 32 tires.
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Old 04-28-10, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Those marketing guys tended to use terms and words really loosely. Terms like Gran(d), Record, Touring, Tourer, Absolute, Ace, Sport, Deluxe, Lightweight, Custom, Ultra, Supreme, etc., were put on anything, whether it was correct or not. Find two or more of these words in a bike model name, and it is 90% chance that the bike is crap. Example: Fuji Gran Tourer.
I wouldn't call the Gran Tourer that passed thru my hands crap. It was what it was, a lower end bike, but it was well made. Not crap.
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Old 04-28-10, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
'87 Lemans RS with RSX 3x7 triple. I have about $250 in it.
Fenders will fit, maybe not with 28's. (Those are 25's on it).
Only one eylet front and rear, but my guess is you can outfit it under your budget quite easily.
Purty...how do you like the RSX brifters?
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Old 04-29-10, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by swen0171 View Post
Thanks! You said exactly what I was trying to say. I like a really stiff frame with larger tires (maybe even 32s if they would fit). To me it feels like the bike will respond well to climbing and power and yet still float a bit. Flexy frames just bug me and newer super sturdy frames like a surly LHT don't have much personality to me. Maybe I'm crazy or too picky.
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
If you can live with welded aluminum, you might want to look at a Klein Performance bike. Very stiff with long chainstays, plenty of room for wide tires and eyelets for racks. But since it's aluminum, you cannot cold set it to 130mm if you decide you want to use a modern drivetrain.
I'm 185 at 6' tall, and I've found my aluminum Giant OCR2 to outperform any steel 'sport touring' frame on hills. It just feels more responsive and lighter up hills (whether or not it actually is - but psychology is an important motivating factor). I'd suggest you find something with chainstays no longer than 43 cm, because in my experience, the longer they get, the mushier the ride. On my OCR2, I can fit 28c with fenders, so it likely can fit 32s without.

At 58cm+, many thin tubed steel frames feel overly flexy to me. I've ridden one oversize tubed steel frame and found it to ride very nicely (stiff yet smooth), but it wouldn't fit larger than 28c tires. So Bianchigirll's suggestion of the Bianchi Eros or similar might be good to investigate.

That being said, I do like the ride of thin tubed steel bikes with shorter chainstays (~41cm). My Centurion Cinelli Equipe, with Columbus SL/SP mix, can fit 28c (maybe even a couple cm larger) and its ride is excellent.

Perhaps such a frame is out of your budget, but you might try looking at the late 60's and 70's European steel rides with fender eyelets (Cinelli, Bianchi and Gazelle come to mind). They were all built for road racing on some sketchy roads.
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Old 04-29-10, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
If you can live with welded aluminum, you might want to look at a Klein Performance bike. Very stiff with long chainstays, plenty of room for wide tires and eyelets for racks. But since it's aluminum, you cannot cold set it to 130mm if you decide you want to use a modern drivetrain.
+1, or a 90's aluminum trek maybe? I think the 1420 was called a sports tourer, probably because of the gearing. It is pretty much a road bike with a triple and wider range.
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