SailorHarry

Hello All,

As discussed in a recent thread I have recently aquired a circa 1967 Raleigh Sports. It seems nearly all original (except for the superior older style pedals), with oil ports on the front and rear hubs. Now, I am the type that likes doing maintenance. I tend to over oil things given the chance. I would like to tear down and regrease the bottom bracket and headset, but the BB in particular looks to be a bit of a hassle. So I am thinking of converting it to oil while I have it apart. It won't really increase the maintenance since you already have to oil the hubs and this way I may never have to tear it down again.

The question is: what changed when the Sports bottom bracket went from oil to grease? Are the older bearings or races any different? I have read in old threads about people dumping oil down the seat tube, but I have access to drills and taps and want to do it right. Any advice would be great!

Also I briefly thought of doing the headset as well, but that probably doesn't make sense. It would just be kind of cool to say it's all oil and no grease.

sailorbenjamin

I don't recall any difference in the bottom bracket except for the oil ports. I think though that if you put oil in the top of your headset it will come out of the bottom of your headset.

desconhecido 

Oh, man, I don't envy you removing the crank. I took apart my first Raleigh Sports yesterday (a 1979) and I ended up having to drill the cotters through and then pound them out with a punch. I understand your reason for considering putting an oil port on there.

SailorHarry

I hope to get them out in one piece but yeah will just have to wait and see. Not something I would want to do yearly for sure.

Thanks for the info, Benjamin. By the way I didn't rip off your name, I've been using SailorHarry for a few years...

David Newton

Others have noted, and I tend to agree that neither the hubs or the BB were/are intended to be oiled only, SA geared hubs excepted.

The oil ports on hubs and BB's of Sports / Roadsters are a sop to folks who would only have their bikes serviced at very long intervals, and dripping oil in was a maintenance extender. If you understand the British mind-set, a puddle of oil under or around a vehicle is confirmation that lubrication exists in the general vacinity. If you don't see oil, by golly, it is time to top up.

Re-greasing a hub or BB should be a quick job, just a few minutes, once the initial "rebuild" of a very old bike is performed.

All that being said, dripping-in some 90 wt gear oil in a hub or BB every couple of months can keep you going a long time.

cudak888 

https://bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/index.html

-Kurt

desconhecido 

Kurt

Thanks for the link to the cotter press page. I think that might be worth it even if it's only one crank that needs to have cotters removed and then re-installed. If someone told me that I could avoid what I went through yesterday for just $55 (plus shipping and handling) it would have been a bargain. Of course, I had just finished reading an article about how easy somebody found it to remove the cotters on a Raleigh Sports so even if someone told me I was getting into trouble I probably would have forged ahead anyway. At least I didn't burn down the garage with the propane torch (which didn't help anyway).

I strongly suspect that the cotters were the originals from back in 1979. When I finally got them out they appeared very clean and without corrosion. Besides, I think this bike was probably ridden very little in it's life and I doubt that any maintenance was ever done to it. I'm guessing that the cotters were probably installed at the factory to a very tight spec -- and, of course, were pressed in rather than hammered.

FlatTop

My '60 Rudge Sports has an oil port on the BB with a small, close-fitting plastic filler cap. The front hub has a circular spring-steel clip that centers over the hole where oil may be added.

I give the rear hub, BB and front hub a few drops of 30W oil a few times a year. After oiling I then wipe the frame down to clean the excess that's run out, or just wipe down the black paint with a grit-free oily rag.

The Rudge rides very well. It is the one bike of a dozen or so that I know is ready at a moment's notice.

cudak888 

I can tell you from both experience and watching years of frustrated cotter-whackers on this forum that the Bikesmith tool is indispensable.

Likewise, you'll find it equally advantageous to get a few sets of the best grade of crank cotter he has available for Raleighs while you are at it. The worst grade of cotter pin is the only one I've found at the local shops, and you might as well flush your money down a toilet for all the good they do.

-Kurt

Charles Wahl

Unlike most people, who seem to have a horror of oil lubrication, I prefer it. I've kept some BBs going on oil only for quite awhile, with no ill effects. The only thing you need to do is get rid of the grease, and then oil on some sort of regular basis. I use heavy-ish stuff, 70W transmission oil, which I think has about the same viscosity as 30W motor oil. It's quite clingy, and smells a bit sulfurous. I use it for hubs (I specifically look for ones with oil ports) and BB alike, but not for headsets, which I agree should be greased.

Yes, if you keep your bikes indoors, you will need some floor protection (even if you don't over-oil). The biggest disadvantage is a bit of leakage that runs down spokes, and collects dirt. If you wipe it off regularly, it won't reach the braking surfaces on rims -- that is a problem that you have to watch out for.

cudak888 

That sounds like a good oil for Sturmey hub raceways.

-Kurt

soonerbills

I'm sorry but but I just can't agree with using light weight oils to lubricate unsealed hubs and BB's. Generally light weight oils are designed to be used in a pressurized system or full bath environment or as a temporary lubricant. Use of a hypoid type 90 weight or better gear oil is little better because like light weights unless there is a splash mechanism or other method of immersion eventually the bearings will run dry unless constantly serviced. IMHO
On the other hand a properly adjusted bearing, well greased using marine quality moisture repellent grease will generally last a long,long time before needing servicing.. Again IMHO

sailorbenjamin

Just so long as you really are a sailor.

SailorHarry

Hmm. I believe that even for a professional regreasing a cottered crank BB would take more than a few minutes, but perhaps I underestimate the value of the proper tools. This is the first I have heard of the oil ports being a "backup", and in fact goes against other things I've read. For certain the S-A hub needs oil, no flexibilty there. I have read that many types of grease breakdown into a sludge in the presence of oil, so it doesn't make much sense that, say, the front hub would come greased but still have an oil port. Same for the bottom bracket. Anyway, your dissention has been noted...

SailorHarry

Merchant mariner, to be exact. Never done any sailboating and I don't own a boat, but I do work as a sort of assistant engineer on deep sea cargo ships.

mickey85

If you want to do it, strip out the bottom bracket, drill and tap a hole, then screw in either a plastic Sturmey Archer hub port, or get a metal lidded one from somewhere that deals with machining equipment - I'm thinking specifically of harbor freight, but I'm not sure if they sell them or not. Just google oil port and look around. It's not that difficult, I'd think.

On the other hand, if you use the cotter press and some automotive wheel bearing grease, you'll only have to clean the bb once every 5 years, at most.

supton

The metal clip over the front hub covers an oil port? I was wondering what that was doing there (on my '69 Sprite). Will have to look now, although honestly, I only spent 15 minutes lubing the hub the other night. Granted, I did not strip it down and wipe each ball off, but it was fast. [It also showed I already had pitting on at least one cone, unfortunately.]

If one uses the press on the cotters, what's the likelyhood of reusing the cotters? I understand, it's probably best to get some spare cotters; but if they press out nicely... Also, on the press, can you flip it over and press in the cotter too? That way it gets seated properly, and only requires a check after a few miles. I don't know about you, but I do a lot of standing once I get more than a mile from home.

southpawboston

i couldn't agree more. see this smile i'm wearing? that's the smile you get when you remove a cotter in about 5 seconds using a press instead of resorting to a sledge hammer.



https://bostonretrowheelmen.blogspot....ed-cranks.html

as for using oil instead of grease-- some people would say that oil is a superior lubricant to grease. the only advantage of grease is that requires less maintenance. if using oil, you have to replenish it more often.

yes. the press works both ways. if a cotter is installed properly is shouldn't get deformed, and can be reused after removal. a cotter that has been deformed by either (a) being pressed or hammered in too tightly, or (b) not being pressed in tightly enough, should not be reused. if there are any sheer lines along the cotter flats, it should be discarded.

supton

Good to know. I'll have to think about ordering that press--I see the link has some cotters listed too, so I'd just order some up at the same time, "just in case"--sooner than later.