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Name That Frame

Old 05-16-10, 09:03 AM
  #1  
dlenmn
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Name That Frame

Hello everyone and welcome to Name That Frame, the game show where you uncover the make and model of a previously unidentified frame. Today's mystery frame has some history on another forum. I bought it because it seemed to be a gem hidden under a wretched paintjob. It was advertised as a Miyata, but that remains unproven – it seems to lack splined tubing, has a different seat stay cap, and different head tube lugs from the Miyatas in the catalogs.

Braze-ons include a chain hanger, a pump peg, down tube shifter mounts, and mounts for two bottle cages.

It came without decals and covered with thick yellow paint (probably not original). I think I only discovered the serial number after stripping it. I then applied a (poor) white and metallic blue paint job and used it as a commuter. It has retired from that role, and because the metallic blue chipped like mad, I've now started stripping it in preparation for a better paint job.

Below are pictures to help you identify the frame (click for larger versions). The winner will receive my praise, and is entitled to beer (or other food/drink) if he or she is in Madison, WI.

The fork: There's no guarantee the fork is original, but I think it is. You can't see it, but the steering tube has "Tange.5.I" and a 'J' and 'S' in a circle stamped on it. Also, the crown race was originally JIS sized (since cut down to ISO), which indicates a Japanese origin for the fork, if not the frame. Note the shape of the fork crown and the lack of eyelets.

fork..jpg

The whole frame:

whole_frame..jpg

The bottom of the bottom bracket, including the serial number. It seams to be “IS513786”. Also note that there is a chainstay bridge.

bb_bottom..jpg

Headtube front: Note how the lugs have points in the middle.

headtube..jpg

The dropouts: The top reads “Shimano”. The bottom reads “EP” or “EF” (it's not clear). Note that there are no eyelets.

dropout..jpg

The seat cluster: Note that the top of the seat stay cap has a flat surface and has nothing written on it.

seat_cluster..jpg

Head tube side: Note the pump peg.

headtube_back..jpg

Bottom Bracket side: Note the lug shape.

bb_side..jpg

Downtube shifter mounts:

shifter_mounts..jpg

Stays: Note the chain hanger.

stays..jpg

If you think more pictures might help, just let me know where to point the camera.

Happy hunting.
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Old 05-16-10, 09:30 AM
  #2  
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Ok, I'm no expert but it's definitely Japanese, Based on the cable routing it's early to mid 80's, and I don't believe the fork is original. If it is a Miyata, they drew their own tubing so there would not be a tange marking. The frame looks remarkably similar to a 1984 Miyata 710 that I once had. the difference is the pump peg which mine didn't have. Cruise through some of the Miyata catalogs available online and check details like dropouts, lugs, etc.
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Old 05-16-10, 09:34 AM
  #3  
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Originally Posted by 5cagm View Post
The frame looks remarkably similar to a 1984 Miyata 710 that I once had. the difference is the pump peg which mine didn't have.
Some 710's had pegs, but the example I have in mind doesn't look anything like the frame above:



-Kurt
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Old 05-16-10, 09:48 AM
  #4  
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Originally Posted by 5cagm View Post
Ok, I'm no expert but it's definitely Japanese, Based on the cable routing it's early to mid 80's, and I don't believe the fork is original. If it is a Miyata, they drew their own tubing so there would not be a tange marking. The frame looks remarkably similar to a 1984 Miyata 710 that I once had. the difference is the pump peg which mine didn't have. Cruise through some of the Miyata catalogs available online and check details like dropouts, lugs, etc.
Out of curiosity, what makes you think the fork isn't original? I think I've looked through all the catalogs on that site (1981-94) and I haven't seen a match. The 710s seems to have eyelets on the rear dropouts, so I don't think it's a match.
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Old 05-16-10, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dlenmn View Post
Out of curiosity, what makes you think the fork isn't original? I think I've looked through all the catalogs on that site (1981-94) and I haven't seen a match. The 710s seems to have eyelets on the rear dropouts, so I don't think it's a match.
Sorry I mis-spoke, what I should have said was: "If it is a Miyata the fork is probably not original because Miyata drew their own tubes and most likely wouldn't have used tange tubing for their fork when they already made their own"
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Old 05-16-10, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 5cagm View Post
Sorry I mis-spoke, what I should have said was: "If it is a Miyata the fork is probably not original because Miyata drew their own tubes and most likely wouldn't have used tange tubing for their fork when they already made their own"
Got it.

Does anyone know the format for Miyata serial numbers? I've got my doubts about whether this is really a Miyata, so knowing that could settle this issue.
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Old 05-16-10, 03:23 PM
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Usually T-Mar will chime in but I haven't seen him around these parts recently. Try sending him a PM and hopefully he can help out. He's an expert on the Japanese built bikes, especially Miyata.
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Old 05-16-10, 03:37 PM
  #8  
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If you want to keep riding that frame, I suggest that you avoid “stripping“ with abrasive; chemicals are a lot faster, and leave you with more steel tubing to support you and your continued forward motion.
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Old 05-16-10, 04:21 PM
  #9  
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PM sent to T-Mar. Thanks for the tip 5cagm.

Charles, I know that chemicals are faster, but I don't have a good place to use them (apartment with little outdoor space). I'm not concerned about compromising the strength of the tubing with abrasives.

Changing subjects, I've been searching for this frame's identity for some time, and one thing which has ruled out many frames is the tips on the front of the head tube lugs. Most of the usual suspects (Miyata, Panasonic, etc.) don't seem to have them. If you've seen that style of lug on a bike, that could help narrow down the company. I've seen them on Schwinn, and Lotus (picture I saw linked to from this forum).
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Old 05-16-10, 05:59 PM
  #10  
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here's a Miyata 310 that has headlugs with those "peaks"...
also, though Miyata did draw their own tubing, a LOT of mfgs. relied on Tange to supply pre-built forks, I would not be surprised if Miyata did, too (in fact I'd bet that this 310 has a fork steerer stamped "Tange", but I sold it so can't confirm that)
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Old 05-16-10, 06:03 PM
  #11  
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Interesting. I guess I spoke too soon about Miyata not having those peaks, although I still haven't seen them on the higher end models (then again, the catalog doesn't always give a good view -- I'm guessing this is a higher end model because it lacks eyelets). Good to know about the forks too.
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Old 05-22-10, 03:18 PM
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I knew that Shimano liked to put date codes on their equipment, but I just learned this includes their dropouts. So I removed some paint, looked carefully, and sure enough 'IJ' on both dropouts. That means October 1985. So the frame was probably 1986 model year.

Any new thoughts?
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