I completely agree.

I have sold thousands of bike parts, pieces and frames to people all over the world. I'm good at it, but not perfect at it. The approach I like to take is to be as honest as possible about condition then add a bit of salesmanship. By that I mean after all of the details I usually talk about the legend regarding the brand, how the brand or bike type is regarded etc. It generally works well and everyone is usually very happy with what they get from me.... and I'm usually correct in all of my details.

The approach I take sometimes, with items that are a bit of a mystery, is to put it up and let the experts out there tell me what I have. It almost always works. With very odd Campy parts for instance I often say that I think it's a this, or I am pretty sure it's a that, and almost every time someone chimes in on the first day to help clarify it. I somewhat expected that over this frame, but I certainly didn't expect the whooping I got over this one. I actually had a guy cal me an "idiot" because I didn't know what a graphite finish Campy Croce d' Aune brakeset was called.

It's not like I put up a rusty Huffy with a Cinelli decal on it or something. I took my best stab at describing it well.

At any rate at some point tonight I should have a new auction up.

Ride on.

Jim

That reply was agreeing to USAzorro.... not all of the other jerks in this thread.


Get real guys.

Im curious what this guys real user ID is....

My guess would be that he stumbled across this post directed at him, then created an alternative user ID to save the other from the shame he has brought upon himself....

JYB has been well, and ably defended. Actions speak as loudly as words, and at this point, all the words that really need to be said, have been. I'm locking the thread for a couple hours to give things a chance to settle down, and to see what actions ensue. I hope the points brought up can be viewed with emotions toned down, in hope that repentance can occur.

Nah, someone sent him a message on ebay alerting him to this thread.

Re-opening. Let's keep it civil.

.
.
OK. I'll start it off with a note to Jim (JLH529):
.
.
.
It is you, proving to all who reads this thread
that you are just what others who have bought from you on
eBay have said about you. Excellent job on that score.
.
As for JunkYardBike's pricing, I can tell you with absolute
certainty that it was based on his knowledge, experience
and honesty/integrity. And it had to do with his generosity
too. I know, because for months now he has invited me to
take this frame for free, to build it up as my own. I
declined only because I already l have a complete and all-
original Cinelli Equipe Centurion and have too many other
bikes to take on more.
.
If you want a first experience of honesty in advertising, I
suggest you get a copy of the December 1984 issue of
Bicycling Magazine and look for its two-page spread ad
introducing the "Cinelli Equipe Centurion" (its official
name). There you will find the only genuine documentation
known to exist for this bicycle. If that chore is too much
for you to handle, you can find relevant quotes from that
ad at: www.sheldonbrown.com/centurion
.
If you have never heard of the late Sheldon Brown, run a
Google search for "Sheldon Brown" or here or on any cycling
website in the world and you can learn about him and his
credibility with cyclists.
.
And while you're at it, run a Google search for "Cinelli
Equipe Centurion". This particular bike has been discussed
ad nauseum on the Web since I bought mine seven years ago
and researched its origins. But then maybe you did run a
Google search and decided to ignore what you read.
.
The great irony here is that if you had listed that frame
honesty on eBay in the first place, without being so
selective about what you remembered JYB pointing out to you
only a week earlier, you might have in the end fetched MORE
for that nice if imperfect frame because people interested
in it (at least one here) might have still been willing to
pay a premium over what you paid for it.
.
But now (I hope) your sorry goose is cooked with us and
perhaps the word will spread fast to others at other
cycling forums too, putting the hex on you and your ilk.
.
This and the other posts here, by the way, are regarded as
"fair comment" in the world of journalism law. If you don't
believe it, look up US Supreme Court rulings on the
subject. "Fair comment" protects your words as well
as ours.
.

Again guys... I am completely blown away by how you are all approaching this. To be completely honest it is experiences like this, despite my love of bikes, that have soured me on the bike scene and culture to some degree. I ask you all to step back and listen to yourselves. I am just a guy who in a title called the bike a Cinelli and not a Centurion. As you can clearly see in the auction I go on to describe the bike in detail as what it is.... not as anything it isn't. I would have to be the worst attempted con artist in the whole world to try to sell some sort of fake Cinelli bike that, clear as day, has CENTURION emblazened all over it. You can't be serious with all of this. Sure there is a certain amount of "my mistake" here but come on.

As for somebody out there bringing up a story about how we disagreed of a part at some point I can only say this (because it's a broad general claim, and nothing more) that over the years there have a few customers, here and there, every so often, that I end up in a disagreement over a part with. I'd say, 3 thousand parts later, this has happened about 3 times. It's usually becasue the customer is extremely rude to me, or calls me a criminal, over a minor mistake (much like what we have here today) all while I'm offering to right the issue wit them. Once or twice I've they've broken me down, and been rude enough, to the point that I'll snap and tell them to go shove it. Trust me when I tell you that some people out there are just plain impossible to deal with. I suppose whoever it is in this forum making this claim might be one of those people (somehow I doubt it) but based upon the way he is acting in this forum it would not surprise me if he's the guy who called ma an idiot over the Croc d'aune brakes or something.

As for junkyardbike - I ask you to consider this... Instead of emailing me in the auction to say "hey I sold you this frame, you have it on ebay, and I don't think it's fairly described." he chose another option. That to post about it here, make me out to be an animal, and ruin my name. Also the move of posting OLD photos of the frame, prior to his cleanup and resto, in the manner of "look how it really looks" is a very slippery move. Both of these actions in my opinion display a genuine bitterness over my flipping the frame, and it is a very unfriendly angle to take from the get go.

So clearly at this point it's obvious that you all wish to make me out to be the joke of the hour in your forum. That's too bad because this could have turned into a nice place for me to talk to other road bike people about fun bike stuff. I have many many satisfied customers across the land and that isn't about to change. If any of you feel the need to take this up with me from behind the guard of your keyboard I welcome the call 978 226 5227 .... I don't suspect that will happen...

There will be a new auction up. If anyone, who wishes to be cool and make friends, wants the link just ask me. Even junkyardbike I welcome in a "bury the hatchet
format. Otherwise I'll try to steer clear of your oh so friendly forum.

Jim

I guess I don't see any reason to keep this open.

A lot of people need to review the rules. Directly insulting other BF members is not allowed even if the insults are richly deserved. Let the moderators take care of it, report any post where insults or other violations occur and let the mods take care of it without a flame war.

I want to hear your answer to what A.Winthrop asked you. Did you not research the frame at all? You have said that this is one of the more mysterious items, surely you searched google? I know for a fact, bikeforums is normally one of the first sources when bike info is sought through google.

Then this thread has exactly zero purpose to exist (anywhere other then A&S, of course ;) ).

-Kurt

Again, with the exception of the one photo I clearly indicate is 'pre-restoration', the other photos were all taken after I cleaned the frame.

While there is merit in what you say about contacting you first, it was my judgment there was intentionality in your ambiguous description (and not so ambiguous listing title). I also find it hard to believe you forgot about the dropout damage, but I suppose you may be dealing in such volume small details like that escape your memory.

I chose to post the thread because I was made aware a few people on the forum were interested and/or bidding on the frame. As someone who appreciates and respects the community here, I believe my input has been useful to those individuals.

I have in no way attacked your personal character or ebay reputation. I simply commented on the listing of an item for which I have personal knowledge.

If the seller relists the frame with a proper listing, then this thread has no purpose. As it is, it got out of control and needs to be fixed up or deleted.

"Omission of the full truth is akin to, if not outright, lying. There are numerous other examples of slippery language in his posts here, not to mention in many of his Ebay ads. They're not hard to pick out."

"as honest as possible" means that I try my best. Inevitably there is a level where on can only go into so much detail in a listing. This is especially true with more vintage bikes that always have a certain amount of expected weathering to them. Just try doing a write up on a 30 year old frame. if one were to offer detail on every little nick or tiny issue the listing would read like a novel. I've come to the conclusion here that I don't like you very much, Afilado. You just want to be a bully and I'm not up for it anymore. My write-ups, photography, and knowledge are considerably better than most people who sell this stuff on ebay. It's hard work to do the good job that i do, and it's virtually impossible to be correct all of the time, and to please everyone all of the time. Just about everyone is satisfied with my items.

No - I didn't research this frame as I should have. I thought the description had quite a bit of info on the ingredients used to build it, where it was built etc... and I obviously displayed a clearly stated "not sure" about a few details. i generally research each one. Obviously i shoul dhave spent a week putting an air tight case together for this one. This trial is tough!

Man I need a ride after all this.... exhausting... I'll probably shave some time off the loop today.

I think we've all had our say, closing this again

leaving this locked in C&V