jago25_98

I've just had my mountain bike stolen so I need a new bike cheap.

A friend has given me an old red Charlton Road Racing Bike:
full pic (244k)

Unfortunately the following parts need replacing, but I'm unsure wether I need special parts because of the age of the bike. My goal is to renovate a bike that feels good to ride even now for a cheap price (<£50). Looking at wiggle.co.uk it looks like each part can be soured usually for about £6. In addition I have a friend in Africa who may be able to get rare parts. Unfortunately I know little about old bikes and ont too much about the differences between off & on road bikes.

Brakes:

U brakes, side pull, with one attachment to the frame at the top.
Where can I find brakes that attach like this or is there a way attach more modern brakes because having them attach like this makes them reallly hard to adjust.
Will these do it? at wiggle.co.uk

Chain:

Looks like a straightforward replacement but could it be an ood gauge, thinner than MTB chains here

Rear Derailleur:

Ok, this is the biggest problem because it looks like this attaches in a different place to modern road bikes that have moved to a similar position to MTB bikes.
here are some Rear Derailleurs that might fit? at wiggle.co.uk again

and a picture of the rear Derailleur fitting 640kb

Front Derailleur:

I'm prepared to forego this for the moment if out of budget. I also have a spare Front Derailleur from a mountain bike; can this fit because it doesn't look quite right.

Bottom bracket:

This may not need replacing but could finding the right size prove difficult? How do I determine the right size I need?

Thanks for any help with this 2nd project. I haven't had a road bike before and I'm suprised how good it feels to ride one even this old.

Iman Azman, MD

Why waste time with such an old bike? Guys who pick trash from dumpsters ride bikes such as this. Modern derailleurs and brakes will not work with ancient bikes of this vintage.

supcom

Modern components most certainly do work with old bikes.

jago25_98, Are the brakes messed up? It looks like you need new cables and housings and should probably put on a new set of pads, but unless the calipers are messed up, clean and grease them and use them. You could replace them with a new set of sidepull calipers, but the adjustment woun't be any easier.

You should be able to use any 8 speed chain on this bike.

The rear derailler used to attach to the rear dropout between the dropout and the axle nut. It would have had a claw shaped adapter that had the threaded hole for the derailler itself. You can see what I'm talking about if you go to any toy store and look at the derailler on a cheap bike. You should be able to put just about any derailler on this bike if you get an adapter. If you get a cheap derailler, it may come with the adapter or a bike shop should be able to sell you one. Since you have friction shifters, you don't have to worry about index positions and such nonsense.

You need a front derailler that can handle the size of the large chainring. It needs to be for a double chainring. Most road-type deraillers should work. It looks like it needs to be set up for the cable pulling from below which should not be a big deal. You might look at how the front deraller cable is routed. From your picture, it appears that the cable is intended to route under the bottom bracket. Is the cable guide still there?

Your bottom bracket is going to be a cup and cone type. Unless soemthing is seriously wrong with it, you should be able to take it apart, clean the old hard grease out and reasseble with new grease. These are pretty sturdy so it should be good.

Be sure to clean and repack all of the bearings (wheel, bottom bracket, and headset).

Good luck with the bike. It looks like a fun project.

jgwilliams

I certainly disagree with Iman Azman. The frame may be showing signs of age, but it looks like an OK frame. I'm riding 170 miles a week on a frame of this vintage - although in my case I took it back to the original builder to get it adapted for modern parts. If you do manage to get it all working you'll still find the brakes pretty scary after your mountain bikes, so if there's any way you can get better brakes on I'd certainly reccommend it - but I don't know how you'd acheive that. Have fun.

jago25_98

supcom: all good news

8 speed chain, rear derailler adapter, bottom pull frton derailler, clean bottom bracket hopefully

- bottom cable guide is still there. So I need to set the front derailler up for bottom pull? This is foriegn to me?

- the brakes seem very good in responsiveness; even with the original brake pads. The only slight problem is that the brake handles have to travel a long way before friction; a matter of adustment. This seems to be because the u-brake arch is not staying centred. Yet it I tighten this the brakes become too stiff? ; this is the only real problem I'm not sure how to deal with. How much effort would it take to get the frame to take the newer double fastening brakes? (not that I have the capability for this) Is there a procedure for adusting I'm not aware of?

One more thing, do I need different tools for the cassette and bottom bracket? (different from MTB bikes)

Flaneur

Cut those dodgy brake lever extensions off and adjust the brakes up tight, with new teflon lined cables and good pads, like Kool Stop, or Aztec. The frame was originally designed for centre-pulls, hence the brazed hanger on the seat stays but the side pulls you have will be OK.

Your LBS will have an adaptor for mounting any derailleur in the rear drop out (pennies).

When you have the bracket apart, have a good look around for rust.

Tools: depends what kind of BB your MTB was running- but 70's bikes used freewheels, not cassettes, so you'll need the correct remover for your make of freewheel. Ask at the shop. (If the old freewheel is clapped out, a decent shop would take it off for you for free if you bought a replacement from them.)

Sure it's a Charlton? Looks like a Carlton, maybe a Claud Butler.........

Flaneur

Note to Iman Azman, MD, from Beverly Hills..........

<Why waste time with such an old bike?>

You are in the Classic and Vintage forum.

<Guys who pick trash from dumpsters ride bikes such as this.>

Dumpster examination is a way of life for some of us;-)

<Modern derailleurs and brakes will not work with ancient bikes of this vintage.>

Thanks for dropping by and sharing your knowledge with us. You may want to consider an upgrade there.

MKRG

Are you sure it's not a Carlton?

Walter

Agree with others that bike could easily be made rideable. I concur that it came wit centerpulls and that the sidepulls were subbed in. Do lose the "safety" extensions on the levers. Front derailleurs come in different widths nowadays. I'd imagine your frame should take a 26.8 but check to be sure, unless you find an older unit from the "good old days" when all front derailleurs were the same size or mounted to braze ons.

supcom

Front deraillers are made for the cable to be either run up from below or down from above. You need the correct type. As Walter stated, you also need to measure the width of the seat tube and get a derailler made for that diameter. A bike shop can help you if you do not have a dial caliper. The measurement needs to be accurate to a tenth of a millimeter.

If your brakes are not centered on the wheel, you can loosen the mounting nut slightly and reposition the caliper so the wheel is sentered between the pads. You may be able to move the caliper just by applying a little pressure on the nut with a wrench without loosening the nut. If you do loosen the nut, be careful not to tighten it too much or the caliper will bind. There may be a locknut as well.

You can remove the "safety levers" simply by taking off the large screw that holds them on.

You'll need some special tools if you plan on doing your own work:

You'll need a crank arm puller to get at the bottom bracket. Don't try hammering the cranks off or other improvised methods. The cranks are likely to be pretty tight on the square tapered BB spindle. The crank puller will get them off with no problem. You will also need a spanner wrench and pin spanner to remove and reinstall the left side cup.

To reinstall and adjust the wheel bearings you will need a couple cone wrenches that fit the cones in the wheel hubs. You will also find it much easier to work on the rear bearings if you remove the freewheel. This requires a small adapter that fits in the (usually) two prongs on the end of the freewheel and lets you use a big wrench to unscrew it.

Enough already! Why are free bikes so expensive? We haven't even begun to talk about respoking the wheels!

jago25_98

Oops, sorry, Carlton!

Thanks for all the help!

- No local bike shop + no transport. Buying online is easiest for me but I'll make the trek if I have to I guess. Can anyone recommend an online source for bike parts?

Main thing is to get the drivechain working as once that's done I can ride it, and that's motivating to tinker.

The tyres seem to have a slow punture, taking about a month to go down. With my MTB I was able to fill the tyres with a slime that made it fairly immune to puntures and never needed to pump the tyres up again. It did change the handling a little but it was certainly worth it. Do newer road inner tubes still have schering threads, or can I fill the inner tubes with slime again?!

"Park Cassette Lockring Remover FR5C FR-5"

^ do you think this will work with my freewheel?

ok, enough questions for now, let's see if I can find an old style bike shop who won't balk at the lack of 6" travel.

supcom

The FR-5 is designed for a cassette. You have a freewheel. It is not the right tool. If your freewheel needs a splined tools, you probably need either FR-1 or FR-4. If you have 2 or 4 large holes for prongs, you need either FR-2 or FR-3. Look for a manufacturer name on the end of the freewheel. That may help locate the correct tool.

jago25_98

^ How can I possibly fit a rear derailleur onto this?

Flaneur

Your LBS will have an adaptor for mounting any derailleur in the rear drop out . Try mail order if there is nowhere within easy reach.....

jago25_98

I can't find an adapter that will fit this one, only a slightly different adapter

supcom

You are not looking for an adapter to fit where the long screw is on your dropout I hope? That hole is for fenders or a rack to mount. The adapter should fit underneath the axle bolt and have a claw shaped foot so the axle can slide in and out of the dropout. The adpter hangs down and has a large threaded hole for the derailer. If you go down to a department store and look at a cheap bike, you can see what it looks like.

jago25_98

I'm not looking for an adapter to fit in any particular place because I can't see anywhere to put it

- I can't see a rear dropout in the picture?

Could you ring the picture where the adapter is supposed to go?

jago25_98

Strange rear dropout creator (not so much adapter but making a rear dropout to attach rear derailluer to)



here's the answer! for anyone trying to figure this out also

and the bike that showed me the way