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Paramount info...simply add..

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Paramount info...simply add..

Old 06-14-10, 12:51 PM
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RobbieTunes 
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Paramount info...simply add..

OK, this is not a thread to start trouble.
It exists for one thing only, to de-confuse me. (Miracles can happen)

It appears the Schwinn/Waterford/PDG/Chicago/Greenville/Asian/Columbus/OS/Non-OS Paramount-labeled model of a certain two-wheeled contraption has quite a varied history.

I've seen them skinny tubed and chrome and fat tubed and painted, with a wide variety of decals. Some have been called mongrels, purebreds, phonies, real, and even bikes in some cases.

I've been to some of the sites, but not many, because I generally consider what the bike says to be what the bike is. However, this model name seems to have been ridden around the block more than my cousin Lizzie, though with fewer miles and less paint.

So, I propose an EDUCATIONAL thread. Simply tell about a Paramount you own or had. Maybe the year, tubing, components, where it was made, and what it says on the bike itself. I'm not asking for opinions on the master race of bikes or some wild oats in a bike bloodline, dig?

Hopefully, when it's done, I'll know about Paramounts from their inception to now. There have been a lot of different paths to a Paramount. Let's see if we can create a thread worth reading.

If not, moderators, feel free to yank it. Maybe I deserve it for simply thinking about this.
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Old 06-14-10, 12:59 PM
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I have a 1992 Paramount Series 2.
The only catalog I have says Paramount on the cover. Within that section, the warranty is by the Schwinn Bicycle Company. It's identified in the catalog as a Paramount Series 2. The catalog pages also refer to the Paramount Design Group.

It is red steel, a Tange-tubed frame with oversized tubing, and a Tange fork. The fork is identical to that on my 1989 Centurion Ironman bikes.

A lower seat tube decal says Made in Japan, Designed in the USA. The Tange decals are gold, but very similar to the Tange decals on the 1989 Centurions.

On the headbadge, it says PDG and nothing else.

It says Paramount on the down tube, fork tubes, seat stays, and it did say it on the R chain stay, but it rubbed off.

It says Series 2 PDG on the top tube. It says OS Series on the seat tube.

It has only a small round Schwinn logo on the seat tube about the size of a nickel.

The bike came with Shimano 500EX components.
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Old 06-14-10, 01:03 PM
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The classic '70s Paramount was painted a solid color with chrome Nervex lugs, made with 531. I think that the Paramounts that don't fit that mold may take a while to catch on.

My only regret is that I didn't buy one in '75, they were cheap, solid and easily available. After my flirtation with weight-weenie-ism was over, I ended up with an Italian racing bike with Campagnolo components and rode that for 30 years. The paramount would have lasted that long too, but it was too boring for me as a teenager.

Actually, my real regret is that I never made myself a racing frame back then, but that's a different story.
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Old 06-14-10, 01:03 PM
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The classic '70s Paramount was painted a solid color with chrome Nervex lugs, made with 531. I think that the Paramounts that don't fit that mold may take a while to catch on.

My only regret is that I didn't buy one in '75, they were cheap, solid and easily available. After my flirtation with weight-weenie-ism was over, I ended up with an Italian racing bike with Campagnolo components and rode that for 30 years. The paramount would have lasted that long too, but it was too boring for me as a teenager.

Actually, my real regret is that I never made myself a racing frame back then, but that's a different story.
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Old 06-14-10, 01:06 PM
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This will be a great thread. I just purchased one and this is what I know:

It's red
1966
P-13
Rides really nice.

Scott
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Old 06-14-10, 01:30 PM
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Mine is '89, candy red, waterford.
tubing unknown (catalog says true temper)
Has a head tube "P" decal, and low key main tube graphics, which I like.
Original 8 speed dura ace equipped, and first generation 8 speed sti shifters, still working fine.
I have since swapped out the seatpost (for a non setback), and wheels (for a lighter set), but still have the old parts.
It rides very nice, just did 42 "mountain miles" up in asheville, nc this weekend.
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Old 06-14-10, 02:55 PM
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A 1966 P-13. Re-Painted to its original Radiant Coppertone. New decals. New pinstripes. Converted to a triple.

A 1983. This has the relatively rare Rainbow decals. Paint is metallic black. Came as a frameset only. The original owner outfitted it with Campy Record, headset, BB, crankset, seatpost, low flange hubs (tubular rims and tires), and shifters. The RD and FD were Suntour Superbe. Levers Diacompe, calipers were Campy GS.

I've butchered it by switching to Shimano Sora 7 speed brifters, Sora FD, and Campy Centaur calipers and RD. The crankset is a 9 speed Campy mirage. The freewheel is a Suntour Ultra wide range 7 speed. I love the way it rides.
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Old 06-14-10, 03:46 PM
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No mystery here: I'm the original owner of this 1973 Chicago built model;

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Old 06-14-10, 08:56 PM
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I have two Paramounts - the classic chrome 1971 P-13...mostly kind of period correct...waiting for the tires I ordered for it to come in so I can actually ride it. I've made a few slight modifications to it since I bought it several months back.

I also own a 1982 Paramount Elite...this was one of the first (I use this term loosly) Paramounts produced in the Waterford, Wisconsin facility. This was the third generation Paramount, replacing the 1958-1979 second generation Paramounts that we all know and love. According to an email I received from Richard Schwinn, about 200-400 '82 Paramounts were produced at Waterford...considering the frames could be custom ordered and complete bikes listed for $2,500...it's easy to see why there weren't many produced.



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Old 06-14-10, 09:02 PM
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Good idea for a thread.
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Old 06-14-10, 09:30 PM
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1961 Schwinn Paramount P12. No chrome anywhere; chrome fork is from a '73. Originally, it would have been all Coppertone w/creme pinstriping. Decals are the short-lived Disneyland font that lasted until late-1963/early-1964. Nervex Pro's.

Components are a mix of Campagnolo Gran Sport and Weinmann 999 brakes. Crankset is a Campagnolo Record 151; an option at the time. Original crankset on the non-upgraded machines (and also the crankset this example wore when I got it) is a cottered Stronglight Competition. Additionally, the Record seatpost was an option; bare-bones original was a cheap aluminum rod with a steel saddle clamp.

Plastic fenders were an option, according to the catalog. Whether they were white Bluemels Populars, as shown, is unknown. I chose these as they were available, and looked good. Zefal pump is neither original nor correct. The rest of the build is intended to mimic the 1961 catalog photo, most notably, the bar tape termination point.



Fenderless:


1961 catalog:


1970 Schwinn Paramount P13. All-chrome, Prugnat lug-era bike, red lug lining. Would have originally had red SCHWINN * PARAMOUNT downtube decals and the white band seattube decal. Build is virtually to Schwinn factory stock with exception to Mavic Module 3 rims and gum-hooded Weinmann levers (the few Weinmann-equipped bikes that escaped turkey wings usually received white hoods). Silca pumnp not original. 27"/630mm wheels, original spec.



1972 Schwinn Paramount P13. All-chrome, Nervex lugs, no lug lining. Has a bit of its original red SCHWINN * PARAMOUNT downtube decals intact; the white band seattube decal is gone entirely. All original and stock componentry with exception to Campione Del Mondo bars in place of the Giro D'Italias, shield Campagnolo hoods in place of world-logo hoods, and the Rigida AL-1320 clinchers in place of Mavic Montherly tubular rims. '70 example in background. 700C wheels, original spec.



-Kurt
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Old 06-15-10, 07:25 AM
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Paramounts for Dummies 101 question ..

Kurt, I noticed on your website you distinguish between 2nd and 3rd generation Paramounts. What are 1st generation Paramounts?

Thanks,


Scott
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Old 06-15-10, 08:02 AM
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Here are some pictures of the ones in my house/garage. The black one is a 1967 that was my daughters college graduation present. The Sierra Brown is my 1974 P10-9 touring bike. I also have a red 1992 Series 2 Japanese built bike but couldn't find a picture. Roger
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Old 06-15-10, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Scottryder View Post
Paramounts for Dummies 101 question ..

Kurt, I noticed on your website you distinguish between 2nd and 3rd generation Paramounts. What are 1st generation Paramounts?

Thanks,


Scott
Scott, I'll risk answering for Kurt. The first generation Paramounts were those built from 1938 until around 1958. Most were built by Emil Wastyn and his son Oscar in their Chicago shop.

The Waterford website has an excellent section devoted to Paramount history HERE.
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Old 06-15-10, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
Scott, I'll risk answering for Kurt. The first generation Paramounts were those built from 1938 until around 1958. Most were built by Emil Wastyn and his son Oscar in their Chicago shop.

The Waterford website has an excellent section devoted to Paramount history HERE.
Thanks Stan, I'm in my third day of ownership on mine and I've got a lot of learning to do. That link will help a ton!

Are the first generation Paramounts sought more or less that the later years?

Scott
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Old 06-15-10, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
Scott, I'll risk answering for Kurt.
No problem, Stan!

-Kurt
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Old 06-15-10, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottryder View Post
Are the first generation Paramounts sought more or less that the later years?

Scott
They certainly can be.

Most of the first generation Paramounts were track bikes or 3-speed Sturmey-Archer IGH equipped "touring" models. Schwinn didn't start widely using derailleurs until 1960.

Here's an example of an early (pre-WW2) first generation Wastyn built track Paramount:







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Old 06-15-10, 01:15 PM
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*gasp*

thanks Stan!


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Old 06-15-10, 04:56 PM
  #19  
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The nearest thing I have to a Paramount is my Greenville mountain bike (see signature), which does get noticed.
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Old 06-15-10, 08:41 PM
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Keep 'em coming folks. roccobike?
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Old 06-15-10, 08:56 PM
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I have an odd collection of more recent Paramounts, Schwinns and a Waterford. From oldest to newest:

1989 Schwinn 564 Aluminum: Build in Greenville, "PDG Designed", welded aluminum frame, Exage parts. My first non-hand me down road bike bought as a HS graduation present. Other than wear parts, it is essentially stock with added aero bars. I use it as a rain bike (all my others are steel) and on the trainer. Stiff and jittery, but it accelerates like a rocket.

1991 Paramount OS: Waterford built, True Temper tubing. I have it built up with a DA7700 group & Mavic/DA wheels. The DA group and hubs are quiet and the the bike rides very smooth. I use it for longer and easier paced rides as I don't have a computer on it, and I like to look at it as much as I ride it. This would have been my dream bike when I first started riding, and still kind of is.

1992 PDG Series 2: I thought Taiwan built, but a previous poster said Japan. Tange tubes. I bought this on ebay as a frame only, painted it myself and built is up as a triathlon bike. I am a decided amateur and just wanted something that functioned but had classic looks. Group is mixed bag of Sram, Tektro and IRD with Nitto bars, stem and seatpost and Shimano wheels. It gets both 'wtf looks' and happy nods. But I can actually average a couple mph faster on it that I can on my roadies.

2005 Waterford RS-22: 853 tubing, bought it slightly used. Got lucky in that it has custom geometry that I would have ordered myself. I have short legs and long torso and this frame was built for someone like that. It also has a classic style paneled paint job which is something else I am a sucker for. Built it with original Rival as I wanted modern stuff with an old look. I'm a little pissed that they went to black on the new stuff as now nobody makes a modern group that has a classic look. I was thinking Ultegra/Open pros but got a new set of Velocity Razors for $150 and I actually like the looks and they have worked well for the first 2K. This my main ride. Both the Sram group and the hubs (I believe Velocity used Formulas) are loud and I kinda like it as it is the opposite of my Paramount and I am usually giving it hell when I ride it.

I also just aquired a 1991 Schwinn Cross Cut frame which I will have powder coated and then build up as a commuter/state park camping/pull my daughter in her trailer bike. I have most of the stuff for it but I haven't quite determined what kind of cockpit set up I want. Anyway, I have read that some of these were built in Greenville and some came from Asia. I actually never thought about checking on mine until I started typing this.

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Old 06-15-10, 09:17 PM
  #22  
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I've got a '75 P-13 that is all original, factory stock. Pretty much all Campy Record, Cinelli stem/bars. It has the "upgrade" (according to the '75 catalogue) to the Gran Sport brakes (instead of the Weinmanns). If you look at the '75 catalogue and look at my bike, part-for-part it's exactly what you'll find printed. The only upgrade it doesn't have is the Brooks Professional.. mine has the Unicantor saddle. Planning on doing the upgrade myself someday though
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Old 06-16-10, 08:57 AM
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in the early 80s, i bought a 70s era paramount frame and fork from a guy who had rattlecanned it metallic blue and then never built it. i paid $125 for it. no braze-ons, rattle paint. it sat for several years, but then did a trade for service deal with a LBS owner who wanted hypnosis to quit smoking. we sent the frame to a california frame shop- Medici?- and asked 'em to re-chrome the lugs, dropouts, and rear chain stays, add full braze-ons, put 80s style Paramount decals on, and do a two color paint (hot rodder mindset...erf!) LBS guy tried to talk me out of it, but eventually took the 'its your bike' approach...i built it up with surplus Campy and Phil Wood hubs, Mavic sewups, etc and set about riding it for several years, until i became a full time swimmer for a couple decades. in 2007, i put an ad for all the old cycling gear i knew i'd 'never need again' up on Velospace and eventually sold it all to a fellow in Michigan whom i've since discovered goes by 'redxj' here on BF, where i have now arrived myself after doing what i thought i'd never do again-returning to cycling!!

matt sent me a pic of my old ride after he rec'd it....its the Miami Vice lookin' one on the left. and yes, i wish i'd never sold it, and the pile of Campy, Dura Ace and Mavic stuff that went with it...oh, and the serial number was J7289-- 89th frame built in October, 1972
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Old 06-16-10, 04:06 PM
  #24  
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Here is my '87 Paramount frame that was recently built up.




My '72 Chrome P15

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Old 06-16-10, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MarylandDeRosa View Post
Here is my '87 Paramount frame that was recently built up.
It came out very nice, Mark! Almost a shame not to have white bar tape on that combo though, wouldn't you say? That deep drop Campione Del Mondo bar really deserves a tape color that shows it off.

-Kurt
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