KonAaron Snake 

If you were having a custom built, which tubing would you use and why? What are the differences and relative advantages to the various steel tubes? I'm not familiar with the more modern steels...are they really much different from their predecessors?

gomango

Hi Aaron,

I like different steels for different reasons.

For example, the Capricorn touring bike I'm ordering will use True Temper steels.

I really liked the handling, load capacity, and the "just the right amount of flex" in this steel.

If I were to build a road/racing bike, I might choose a Columbus product for somewhat different reasons.

Are you building a road bike, a touring bike, or an "all" around sport tourer?



Here are some high-quality thoughts about this topic from Dave Kirk:

https://www.kirkframeworks.com/Philosophy.htm

nlerner

My Ebisu is made from Kaisei tubing, which is a direct descendent of Ishiwata 022, a cro-mo tubeset that is reasonably light but also suitable for touring frames:

https://www.bikeschool.com/store/index.cgi?sp=kaisei

Neal

JohnDThompson 

I'd sit down and talk to your builder about what kind of bike you're looking to get, what type of riding, etc. and see what s/he suggests. If you want a brazed/lugged frame, there's no real advantage to using the new air-hardening steels because brazing doesn't get the tubing hot enough for the air-hardening to be effective. If you want a frame suitable for loaded touring in remote areas it will be quite different from one designed for track racing in a velodrome. The builder should have knowledge and experience to bring to bear on your specific needs and expectations. That's why you get a custom frame, after all.

cudak888 

Primary requirements: Imperial fork blades, and tubing must not be heat treated. I don't like the continental oval fork blade shape, and I don't care for any tubing I can't cold set after an accident.

-Kurt

KonAaron Snake 

Very good input...I'm thinking along the lines of a somewhat relaxed traditional Italian road design. I'd like to be able to fit 28c's. Perhaps something along the lines of a Raleigh Professional. I THINK Reynolds 753 is heat treated...I haven't noticed much difference between my 753 bike and 531.

mudboy

Honestly, there are a lot of factors that you haven't covered:

* What will the bike be used for? Racing? Loaded touring? Sport touring?
* Do you want traditional or OS diameter tubes?
* How much do you weigh and how tall are you?
* Are you a "masher" or a "spinner"?
* Lugs, TIG, or fillet?
* Budget?

I'm a big guy (225#, 6'0") and the frame I just built up was lugged Columbus SPX. It rides great, but I'm a spinner, not a masher, and I just do sport riding. For a smaller rider, SL would probably work really well. My next frame, which will be a bit sportier, will probably be oversized Kaisei 4130. For a builder with my lack of experience, being able to cold-set would be a plus. For an experienced builder that builds a dialed frame, standard or heat treated shouldn't matter.

Who's building your frame? Bilenky? Dreesens?

Pete

KonAaron Snake 

I'll be using it for club rides at some point...faster daily rides of 10-30 miles...some longer rides in the 50-60 mile range. 5'10, 220 lbs. woth a 30 inch inseam. I generally ride 53-54cm. I usually spend most of my time on the hoods. I do mash when climbing. I spin about 80-90 rpm and sometimes will mash gears. I consider myself a fairly balanced rider. I don't really have an opinion on OS or traditional...I was hoping for advice on that. I know OS equates with stiffer, but I have ridden bikes that are too stiff. Lugs. I am not sure on the price I'm looking at, but if I'm doing a custom, I'd like to do it right and am willing to spend to get what I want (as I'm only doing this once).

Looks like the frame is going to be built by Marnati of Milan.

mickey85

Granted, I don't have much experience with the higher end Ishiwata stuff, but I've found that that s35i triple-butted whatever-it-is is very heavy for chromoly, and rather flexible. It's obnoxious to be mashing the pedals on a really steep hill and hear the FD scraping on every right pedal stroke.

If I had my druthers, it'd be a tight geometry 531 bike with a full mid-60's Campy gruppo. But, you could probably get the original thing for half the price.

gomango

Marnati!

You are a lucky boy!

If this is any indication, you are in for the treat of your life.

https://forums.serotta.com/showthread...hlight=marnati

....and by the way, I saw one in person while we were vacationing last summer in Tuscany.

Hands down, one of the prettiest racing bikes I've ever seen.

repechage

Relaxed traditional Italian road bike design, good. Raleigh Professional?! What eras are you speaking of for either....

As examples:

70's Italian:

73 degree parallel, 50 mm of fork rake, 75 mm of BB drop. 415 mm chainstays measured with the axle forward, this would be average sized bike 56cm range, 55 to 56 cm top tube.

60's Italian:

72 degree parallel, 50 to 55mm fork rake, 75 mm of BB drop, 420 to 425 mm chainsays, same tt & st dim range

50's Italian

72 degree parallel, 55 mm of fork rake, 75 to 80 mm of BB drop, 430 mm chainstays, 55 to 56 cm seat tube, 56 to 57 cm top tube.

Tire / brake clearance will effect the down tube lug angle as will top tube length. Longer chain stays can help tire room and chainwheel space. I like ovalized chainstays vs. dimpled.

Don't have the dimensions of the Pro, but the BB drop I recall as less 70 mm or even less than that, and they kept the same top tube length for a number of st sizes (less fixture work)

For tubing Columbus SL or Spirit for Lugs if you want oversize. The Japanese stuff is intriguing...

unterhausen

too bad chrome is so very expensive in the U.S., I always loved that part of Italian frames.

All the current tubing available is good. I like Spirit for lugs for OS lugged, and the SL reissue for traditional size frames. There is also a reissue 531, but I have no experience with that. Deda is really nice, I've mostly built forks with it so far though.

unterhausen

too bad chrome is so very expensive in the U.S., I always loved that part of Italian frames.

All the current tubing available is good. I like Spirit for lugs for OS lugged, and the SL reissue for traditional size frames. There is also a reissue 531, but I have no experience with that. Deda is really nice, I've mostly built forks with it so far though.

JohnDThompson 

Greg Parker at bicycleclassics.com has NOS 1970s vintage Reynolds 531 tube sets with Imperial oval blades. I used a set to build my new fixed gear frame last year:

JohnDThompson 

Yes, Reynolds 753 is heat treated Reynolds 531 "Special Lightweight."

cudak888 

Good to know. I have one used set kicking about, but I'm still not good enough to do joints yet. Flunked my first dropout, bu I can put down a line of brass to a T.

That frameset is beautiful. It makes me think of a high-end, custom English build form the 1970's. I can't make out the lugs that well from here - what are they? Almost tempted to say that they're filed Long Shen 205's (but I'm probably wrong).

-Kurt

JohnDThompson 

They're Tange investment cast lugs: https://picasaweb.google.com/JohnDThompson/FixedFrame#

KonAaron Snake 

I'd never heard of him before, but everything I've found via google and info. from fellow members is fantastic. The images I'm seeing make me think this is exactly what I want (given that I can't afford Spectrum and Sachs isn't taking new customers until 2052).

KonAaron Snake 

I love fully chromed bikes, but what I like best are the half chromed stays and forks. I haven't fully decided on color yet, but my first instinct is a dark blue with white paneling.