gems

I buy a lot of used bikes. Sometimes the seller will state an asking price, very often they will not.

I want to buy as cheap as I can, as I am mostly flipping.

A lowball to one seller will be a very fair price to another.

How do you go about making an offer, when no price has been discussed? How do you feel it out?

My method: I usually try and feel out how eager they are to sell, how much they know about bikes/value and how attached they are to it. Many people dont care, they just want to get rid of the bike. Some people will tell me they still have the receipt from 1985 (I get ready to leave at that point, though sometimes they will be realistic about what it's worth now). Sometimes people will state that they had it tuned up at a shop recently, tires replaced etc.. these people will very often want "what they put into it". (which is often more than I am willing to pay) Or they will mention having looked it up on the internet/ebay (another bad sign).

I deal with working class people up to people in million dollar+ homes (I buy bikes in suburban and rural areas, never in cities). I have found that people's socio-economic position in no way dictates how much they expect for the bike. Very often it works opposite to how I would expect.

Sometimes I have offered too much and the seller has actually told me that my offer was too high.

So say someone calls you up they have an 80's nishiki 10 speed, good condition. You go to see it, looks good, you ask them, "so how much do you want for it" they say "make me an offer"?

khatfull

It's simply commerce. If they ask for an offer make one. If they don't like it they are free to decline or counter offer. You can decide where to go from there.

You're probably over thinking it. Offer the maximum you want to pay (don't be a complete dweeb about it). The seller will counter with what they want to get...somewhere in the middle you'll meet, or not.

EDIT: If a seller doesn't want to be "offended" they should set a price not ask for one.

norskagent

If I were flipping I would work my way backwards to the asking price - saying "how much could I sell this bike + x (profit margin), fairly easily?" Then offer that amount minus (x + bonus cushion amount), and see what happens.

that_guy_zach

Just be sure to only make a offer in person. That is the one thing I cant stand is offers by email or phone,Not sure how many people are like that though.

Most people have a tendency to talk themselves down on price the more you look something over so try that first. If they dont you can use the old "Needs new tires and cables" bit.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

20 bux. Thats my standard counter for "Make me an Offer"

I honestly think its kind of B*llsh*t when a person just says "make me an offer". They have some inkling of an idea of what they want but they just aren't showing their cards yet. And to continue that metaphor its a crappy bluff. I just call their bluff and do exactly what they asked me to do. If they don't like my response I say "Well, then you make me an offer".

I never badmouth the condition of somebodys bike to chisel em on price though. I won't be like "Oh, well the tires are shot and the bearings are gonna need repacking and brake wire need replacing..etc" They don't care. They want what they want and I want what I want. If the two coincide a deal is struck, otherwise its peace out.

khatfull

Essentially what I was getting it...spoken more eloquently

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

I missed your edit when I made that post

and I agree 100%. If they do get offended the seller is a jerk.

BigPolishJimmy

I'm a big fan of saying 'it's worth x-amount to me', and when they hem and haw following it up with 'you may get that from someone else, and I'm not saying it's not worth that, but to me it's worth x-amount to me, and I have cash in my pocket right now' bird in the hand sort of thing. Then they have to decide if they want the quick sure thing or to hold out for more.

liquefied

I always lowball if they say 'make an offer'. I'm there to make money, not to make friends.

Dan The Man

That makes no sense. Why would you offer the maximum you want to pay? That gives no bargaining room. If you negotiate and meet in the middle after starting from the maximum, then you have just paid more than the maximum you want to pay. Thus it was not the maximum at all. The whole point of bargaining is to get away with the minimum you can pay, which is the minimum that the other person will accept.

That means that you have to start with an offer at or below the minimum that you think the seller is willing to sell for. From there, you try to figure out what his minimum selling price is while he tries to figure out what your maximum buying price is. If you both push equally hard, you will probably meet somewhere in the middle. If your maximum is less than the persons minimum, no sale will occur.

It helps when making and countering offers to offer a reason for each variance in price. Accessories are always good bargaining chips.

DiegoFrogs

Often what they want and what they think it's worth are two different things. A $50 bike may look like a quick $300 when it's the 30th of the month and you're $300 down on next month's rent...

BigPolishJimmy

There is a difference too based on where you're at, say at a garage/yard sale vs. Craigslist. I've learned to delete low-ball offers on Craigslist even though I'm guilty of having done this myself once. I know that the transaction at that point isn't going to be reasonable from my position as a seller because its creating a new point from which to bargain once we meet and they start kicking to tires. I expect they'll want me to give them $money just to take it away for me.

Chicago Al 

This is why a 'value guide' like a 'Blue Book' is a bad idea. Seller with a rusty Peugeot UO-A with a bent fork would look it up, decide it was a PX-10, and demand a price accordingly. Heck, some sellers already do that, out of ignorance, wishful thinking, or deception (ie trying to sell Magnas for more than Walmart retail).

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

I like that very much, I may use that line in the future


a bit-off topic, but if you want to see how the pros haggle watch the History Channel show "Pawn Stars" those dudes are champions of the haggle.

Mike Mills

The art of negotiation. Perhaps take a clue from the diamond merchants. Sit down with the seller, perhaps around the table of workbench in the garage. Write a price on a piece of paper. Show it to them. If they like it, great, If not, let them write a counter-offer on the paper.

gitarzan

That works real well especially if they are deaf.

Poguemahone

Some of us are.

CardiacKid

In my business, I negotiate every day. I have never been concerned with insulting someone with an offer they thought was too low. If the other side insists on my making the first move, I will make the lowest offer I could sleep with if they accepted. If it offends them, t.s.. It is just business. Some people who advertise on CL are just crackpots, some are just uninformed. If they are of the crackpot variety, I just walk away. If they are uninformed, I will try and inform them, if they are interested. Of course, there are also people who are just crooks. Those are probably the ones that get most offended by what they allege is a lowball offer.

SirMike1983 

I suppose my method is to guess at what it's actually worth and subtract maybe 15% and make that the offer. That way it's not unreasonably low, but it's still somewhat of a bargain.

norskagent

I liked how the merchants on St. Thomas (usvi) would price an item - you would ask "how much is the watch", they would take a calculator out of their pocket and punch in numbers, then show that to you. If you counter offered they would punch in a another number to show you. They acted like they were cyphering a complicated formula to arrive at each flexible price. It was kind of funny to watch.

soonerbills

+1
I pretty much know at first look what it will cost for a rehabb and have a good idea what the bike will bring.. but not always.
But I never go into cost of repairs. Just give them my lowest price and work from there. Sometimes it works sometimes not. No biggie!

USAZorro

If someone doesn't tell me what they want, I'll ask them if they had a price in mind. If they do, and I like it, it's sold. If they don't, I'll suggest something - like maybe 75% of what I'd be willing to pay. From my perspective, I'm not intentionally making an offer that should be insulting to them.

frpax

Unless the ad says that a particular price is FIRM, then I almost always offer less than the asked for price, when I'm trawling on Craig's List. If I can buy it for less, then that's good for me. Besides, I'm of the thinking that, "if you don't ask, you don't get". With any piece of merchandise, I think, there is a "range" of what it is worth to me. I will usually offer a tad below my low end price. It's just an offer, and they can take it, or counter, or tell me that the price is firm.

I will usually do this in person, unless they live a good long ways away. Last thing I want to do is drive 25 miles, meeting some guy halfway, only to start negotiations and possibly drive away empty handed.

wrk101

A few rules I use:

1. Always in person!

2. If the bike has defects, I explain it without whining! +1 to the above: And then make an offer accordingly, something to the effect of: "this bike is only worth X to me. It might be worth more to someone else, and I understand that." Most of the time, the offer is accepted. Sometimes, I get a counter. Sometimes, I walk away.

3. I work the problem backwards: What can I sell it for, what will I need to spend on parts, a fair margin, plus a reserve amount for what I can't see. And bikes with serious defects, I just offer what a few of the key components are worth: the wheels and the crankset for example. That reserve amount has saved me several times.

4. And the offer depends on the venue. If it is a garage sale, then I offer a good solid garage sale price (low). Its pretty rare for a garage sale bike to be over $50. If it is on Craigs List, I adjust my offer up to reflect more competition. (But I assume llittle or no competition on bikes in poor condition.) And if I am trying to scoop a deal, I offer full price.

5. I guess it depends where you live. Around here, 25 miles is close by. I will try to feel them out price wise if it is 100 miles or so, and have them agree to holding the bike until I arrive.

6. If the person has multiple bikes, I try to make one offer for the group. I have bought as many as five bikes at once. Sometimes (particularly garage sales), sellers just want to get rid of stuff. So I will buy the lot, and have dropped off a bike or two at my favorite thrift store on the way home. I bought a Fuji Series IV touring bike earlier this year, guy wanted to sell all five bikes at once. One ended up to the curb, two ended up being donated, and two rehabbed. The seller already had someone that just wanted the Fuji. I trumped the other buyer, by offering to take the lot (at the price I would have given for the Fuji, even though the seller didn't want that much for the Fuji). Basically, he had a great deal on the Fuji, a so so deal on another bike, and three crappy bikes. He wanted them ALL gone.


I took a negotiating skills class years ago, and the guy teaching it shared a couple of great lessons (at least I thought so):

1. A lot of people are worried about being the first one to mention a price. But in reality, that is a role you should want. Most negotiations are anchored by a starting price. So whoever mentions the starting price, will set the approximate ending price. Most negotiations (according to the "expert") end up being within 10 or 15% of that first number.

2. Put yourself in the shoes of the other party. You know what you want, but what do THEY want? Then make an offer tailored to what the other party wants, instead of what you want. The Fuji is a great example. I really wanted that Fuji. But what did the seller want? He had a house he was trying to sell, and had five bikes sitting in the yard, he wanted them all gone, and he wanted them gone immediately. So rather than focus on what I wanted, I just focused on his need, and completed the deal.

Scrockern8r

+1 Plus if I think the seller feels offended, I explain that my goal is to get the best deal possible and that is what it is worth specifically to ME. I find that if I just put it out there, they usually warm up pretty good.