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Dirty tricks on Ebay... Grrr!

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Dirty tricks on Ebay... Grrr!

Old 08-04-10, 01:14 PM
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I've retracted a bid before. It took me longer than 22 minutes to find the link.

(I don't mean to imply that I think the bidder did that by accident...I'm sure he was scamming...but what the hay. Ebay is full of 'em.)
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Old 08-04-10, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by soonerbills
Also, reserves are stupid. I never bid on reserve auctions. If you know the minimum price you want to sell it for why not just start the auction at that price instead of trying to trick people?

Well that's strong!
Auctions across the world both in person and on the internet have been reserve based for like, forever. And for good reason. The fact is people like to dicker and they like to get a valuable item for cheap. BIN and preset visible reserves(high starting amounts) take the fun out of a auction. Most folks have amount in mind they are wanting to pay and hope the can get it cheaper. Sellers know what they need to break even or make money. And the fact is people are just flat curious..and like to see what a reserve is.
I am not tricking anyone with a reserve... I am letting people know I have a amount that is the least I will take for a item. they can bid or not it's their choice. But it seems as if some think I'm the bad guy for not just giving my stuff away... WTF
Like I said ... reserve... no reserve it works both ways.
Everyone is different.
Maybe it makes sense in a live auction where there actually is some excitement and interaction between bidders. On ebay it's just silly. Maybe it's just me. When I buy things on ebay it's not because I'm looking for 'fun' in buying through auction. It's because I want/need an item. I don't want the dickery. I see no difference between a reserve price and a high starting bid except that the reserve price just adds an annoying period of pointless bidding to an auction.
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Old 08-04-10, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by soonerbills
Don't get me wrong, I am not found of selling on eBay but in this instance I don't see anything funny. I've had this discussion with myself many times and I agree with wrok101, start it at your minimum or .99. That reserve/buy it now is just more money for eBay.

The problem is that after bidding the "buyer" overshot the reserve and then the reserve became the starting point for the auction.It was a ploy only to see the reserve which is wrong. It has been my experience that bidders might and do bid way beyond the reserve price if the auction continued as normal. But when the reserve is met and shown and then the bid is retracted thus resetting the auction, those bidders/watchers may well drop out as active bidders. An unfair action against me the seller I believe.
As far a reserves and auctions I understand the point in no reserve on a very desirable ite as you can be somewhat reassured on getting the items worth. On the other hand a item that is mundane and plentiful needs a reesrve to make sure it does not go too cheap. i don't like much giving my stuff away. And I have no problem paying Ebay a little more to make sure I don't. But it's a opinion not a fact and lots of folks are successful both ways.
I think both points that are made here have some validity. One question I have is why didn't you just end the listing once it came back and relist with the reserve not being seen. Only the people who saw what went on in those 20 minutes or so would have been knowledgable of the reserve amount.

On another note, there are many, many times where I am interested in an item that has a reserve and I ask the seller if he/she wouldn't mind revealing the reserve. About half will tell me what it is and half won't. It is a nice piece of information to have as you are watching the bidding proceed.
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Old 08-04-10, 01:35 PM
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I make extensive use of reserve because I am always nervous that I am going to lose my ass on something of value due to low bidding. And I bet a reserve turns off some bidders. I have a couple DeRosa's I may be selling soon and I am not going to let them go for less than a certain number. But when I read the comments about just setting a minimum price rather than hiding a reserve, it seems to make sense. I laugh at lots of sellers who set these unreasonably priced minimum bids or BINs on bikes and they appear for sale every 10 days to 2 weeks after the the latest failed attempt to find a buyer. There's a Merckx frame that has been on eBay for $1750 about 10 different times in the last 6 months. But at least they are being up front about the price they insist on getting. If they are willing to wait for the right buyer, then maybe that is a better way to go than a hidden reserve.
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Old 08-04-10, 02:03 PM
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It's my opinion that when you set your reserve as your starting price on an auction you scare away prospective bidders who would have warmed up to the price if it had been unknown and gradually worked up to. I am sure that many auctions lose bidders due to sticker shock so to speak.

I see no difference between a reserve price and a high starting bid except that the reserve price just adds an annoying period of pointless bidding to an auction.

Again it's my opinion is you lose some bidders with the higher starting price but I respectfully disagree. I'm sure there are many who feel as you but many more on the reverse. Otherwise Ebay would be a BIN only vehicle.
Well maybe not totally
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Old 08-04-10, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by soonerbills
...

I see no difference between a reserve price and a high starting bid except that the reserve price just adds an annoying period of pointless bidding to an auction.

Again it's my opinion is you lose some bidders with the higher starting price but I respectfully disagree. I'm sure there are many who feel as you but many more on the reverse. Otherwise Ebay would be a BIN only vehicle.
Well maybe not totally
The retracted bid is an interesting ploy, depending on when it happens in the bid period it can really goof things up. As a seller you can review the actions of the bidder to a point, enough to consider blocking them in the future. Even cloaked bidder's bid history can be reviewed in an overview form.

Why I do not like the high starting price auctions, and get even more frustrated as recently when the starting price which was high got increased 50% just prior to the auction close, well with two days to go on a 10 day auction it still had not bids... I did not bid on that one, hard, but the shipping from europe was big too, too big, but that is the way it is.
ebay is fast becoming a snipe or buy it now deal, so a high (near market) starting price is probably the only rational answer.
I recently just missed a complete Campagnolo brake caliper, I sniped low as the price was low way too long, I lost, it went for $18.50. I was expecting to be blown out, not runner up.
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Old 08-04-10, 04:40 PM
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I had someone pull the same trick on Scooter I had up for auction. I contested it claiming his actions revieled my reserve. Ebay put the bidder on probation and allowed me to re-list. Of course too many bidders already knew what I was expecting so I changed it to a No-Reserve auction. I'm glad I contested it!
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Old 08-04-10, 05:09 PM
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I have no idea of the result of my complaint. I did need to relist as by the next morning it was bought with the BIN. So even though I was not happy about the issue I got what I wanted and then some.....
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Old 08-04-10, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by soonerbills
Also, reserves are stupid. I never bid on reserve auctions. If you know the minimum price you want to sell it for why not just start the auction at that price instead of trying to trick people?

Well that's strong!

The fact is people like to dicker and they like to get a valuable item for cheap. BIN and preset visible reserves(high starting amounts) take the fun out of a auction.
Here's where you're not getting it. eBay used to be about fun and deals. It is no longer. eBay is Amazon with "bidding". It is what it is. There are unscrupulous buyers on eBay as there are in any form of commerce.

It sucks but it's the price of admission.
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Old 08-04-10, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Rax
Recently I had an item sell, and delivery confirmation even said the item was delivered. The buyer filed a claim that they didn't receive it, and paypal gave them their money back even with a scan of my USPS receipt to the proper zip, and confirmation of delivery.
I have had items come to my house and have delivery conf. and no one signs for it and it just gets left on my porch with no one home. so maybe the buyer lives in a not so swell neighborhood and it got stolen. I have had delivery conf. emails delivered also and the mail man never left anything too. needless to say he was a lil mad when he had to come at the end of the day and hand deliver that to me. he was cursing while alking down the drive!!! so maybe their postal worker is just lazy like mine. Just saying that there could be reasons other than them being shady that's all. sorry you had that happen though.

Last edited by unterhausen; 08-04-10 at 11:27 PM. Reason: fixed tags
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Old 08-04-10, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cpsqlrwn
I make extensive use of reserve because I am always nervous that I am going to lose my ass on something of value due to low bidding. And I bet a reserve turns off some bidders.
Does me, I simply don't bid on reserve auctions under any circumstance.

Originally Posted by soonerbills
It's my opinion that when you set your reserve as your starting price on an auction you scare away prospective bidders who would have warmed up to the price if it had been unknown and gradually worked up to. I am sure that many auctions lose bidders due to sticker shock so to speak.
If you want a certain amount of money for an item then list it for that. Period. Buyers will either agree with your assessment of the value and bid (and perhaps bid above) or they'll disagree with your assessment of value and not bid. This way nobody wastes time, nobody dinks around with feeler bids and bid reatractions. eBay is now a marketplace, not an auction house.

I always list for the minimum I'd like to have then a BIN for an amount I'd really like to get. If people bid it up fine. If they use the BIN because they want the item faster fine. They're happy I'm happy...and they agreed with my assessment of the item's value.
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Old 08-04-10, 05:48 PM
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When placing a BIN, first go to "What's worth?" in the "Start Selling" page. Take what you think is a fair amount, a bit lower then the lowest sold and use that as your BIN. This would generate interest and a quick sale! Using a reserve is expensive, usually one to five percent of the reserve price, gravy for Ebay. I agree with BG, start the price at what you would want as a minimum, that way it eliminates non serious bidders and gets to the real buyer. For large ticket items, purchase insurance on the part, it's may seem a wast of money, but then why gamble, that's what I usually do.
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Old 08-04-10, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by liquefied

Also, reserves are stupid. I never bid on reserve auctions. If you know the minimum price you want to sell it for why not just start the auction at that price instead of trying to trick people?
seconded.
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Old 08-04-10, 05:57 PM
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I don't understand the secret reserve. Who cares if people know. If someone will pay $200 for something and your reserve is $210 they won't win it even if they don't know the reserve.

I would say that 99.9%of the time I get more money from a no reserve auction then one that has one.
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Old 08-04-10, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gioscinelli
For large ticket items, purchase insurance on the part, it's may seem a wast of money, but then why gamble, that's what I usually do.
I am not familiar with insurance. Can you tell me about that briefly?
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Old 08-04-10, 06:54 PM
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Well the canned responses from ebay can be 'interesting'. I had an issue as a buyer (refused to sign for a box with a frame in it that had been beat up in shipping and felt like it had no packing. UPS counter person had a very skeptical look when I told him it had a bike frame in it) and the first response was just off the wall strange based on what had been communicated between myself and the seller. Seller kept trying to communicate outside the ebay system

The first responses showed that they had not even read through the emails that had been sent back and forth. Second person who looked at it read through everything and got it straightened out.
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Old 08-04-10, 07:23 PM
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Similar thing just happended to me. I just listed a nice Suntour Superbe crank set on eBay, with a BIN. I set a reserve at $50, just to protect the BIN for a little while. Didn't work - someone ran it up to $50 almost immediately. So much for that theory.

FWIW, I'm not really a believer in setting reserves to guard against getting too little, but sometimes I use them to protect a "pie in the sky" BIN for a little bit to see what happens.
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Old 08-04-10, 07:27 PM
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Add me to the list that will not bid on an auction with a reserve. I will snap up a BIN when I think it is a good deal.
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Old 08-04-10, 07:31 PM
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Sellers should get better results with reserves compared to just starting at their "reserve". Compare these two scenarios.

1) seller starts their auction at $500. Three guys look at it and say, "I think that's probably more than the frame is "worth". One guy thought it was worth $400, but not $500. None of them can bid. Frame doesn't sell.

2) seller starts their auction at $100. All three guys who look at it put in bids, the highest one pushing the price to $400. Well now we have some momentum. Each additional potential bidder sees that there are other people out there who are interested in this frame. He feels more secure in bidding on it because he sees there is strong demand for it and he will trust he can always resell it later for basically what he paid for it. So he bids and the price goes higher. Repeat as people look at the auction...the frame goes way over the reserve and beyond. The result is that the presence of other bids creates security that prompts bidders to value something higher than they might have done so if they didn't see other people were interested in it. In other words, the "value" of the frame was created by the market.
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Old 08-04-10, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101
Add me to the list that will not bid on an auction with a reserve. I will snap up a BIN when I think it is a good deal.
+1. I am of the same school of thought.

Nothing wrong with setting a reserve that way, but I am more likely to bid (snipe) on a NR auction. I often use "NR" in my filter/search criteria.
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Old 08-04-10, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by pacificaslim
Sellers should get better results with reserves compared to just starting at their "reserve". Compare these two scenarios.....<snip>>
How much have you sold on ebay? How is it working for you?

I sell quite a bit on ebay, and I can tell you, on the stuff I am selling, auction fever does not work. I use ebay to sell high end apparel and odd ball thrift store and garage sale finds. I often just get one bid. I used to start items at 99 cents, and I would often still just get one bid. I got tired of giving stuff away. I now start items close to what I think is market value. 90% of what I sell gets one bid. And we are not talking BIN auctions either. Its just a limited market.

While the momentum concept is great in theory, it really depends what you are selling. On popular items, it works (sometimes). On stuff with a limited market, it doesn't.
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Old 08-04-10, 09:29 PM
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I suppose this should be another thread, but...
Someone asked about insurance during shipping, anyone know how that works?
UPS doesn't offer insurance, though they will sell you something if you ask for insurance. Not sure what they are selling, but it isn't insurance.
USPS sells insurance, but I'm not sure what it is they are selling, either.
I ship expensive guitars, and so far no trouble, but just so far.
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Old 08-04-10, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by David Newton
I suppose this should be another thread, but...
Someone asked about insurance during shipping, anyone know how that works?
UPS doesn't offer insurance, though they will sell you something if you ask for insurance. Not sure what they are selling, but it isn't insurance.
USPS sells insurance, but I'm not sure what it is they are selling, either.
I ship expensive guitars, and so far no trouble, but just so far.
It works like crap, unless they lose the item. Otherwise, they go right into the: "It wasn't packed right" "Deny" "Deny" "Deny" mode. I had one claim where they said it wasn't packed properly, so denied. And it was packed by them (UPS, packed by Mailbox Etc, which they own).
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Old 08-05-10, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by pacificaslim
Sellers should get better results with reserves compared to just starting at their "reserve". Compare these two scenarios.

1) seller starts their auction at $500. Three guys look at it and say, "I think that's probably more than the frame is "worth". One guy thought it was worth $400, but not $500. None of them can bid. Frame doesn't sell.

2) seller starts their auction at $100. All three guys who look at it put in bids, the highest one pushing the price to $400. Well now we have some momentum. Each additional potential bidder sees that there are other people out there who are interested in this frame. He feels more secure in bidding on it because he sees there is strong demand for it and he will trust he can always resell it later for basically what he paid for it. So he bids and the price goes higher. Repeat as people look at the auction...the frame goes way over the reserve and beyond. The result is that the presence of other bids creates security that prompts bidders to value something higher than they might have done so if they didn't see other people were interested in it. In other words, the "value" of the frame was created by the market.
That's a whole lot of conjecture.
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Old 08-05-10, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by wrk101
It works like crap, unless they lose the item. Otherwise, they go right into the: "It wasn't packed right" "Deny" "Deny" "Deny" mode. I had one claim where they said it wasn't packed properly, so denied. And it was packed by them (UPS, packed by Mailbox Etc, which they own).
Pretty much every claim will be denied with the "improperly packed" excuse the first time. Once your lawyer calls them, they tend to pay up, though.
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