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suggestions if I go custom for randonneuring bike....ie best bang for the buck

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suggestions if I go custom for randonneuring bike....ie best bang for the buck

Old 09-06-10, 04:42 PM
  #26  
canali
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yeah just got off of phone with al berg (very nice gent)....am looking at $1600 Cdn for steel, $2500 for ti...custom fork $300...add build kit of $2000 ultegra with wheels and we're close to (with our taxes) $5000...wow.....maybe best to stick with gunnar sport, fastlane or others ie Everti? for TI...others?)

..heck even salsa casserolle or soma smoothie might work for a sport touring bike (even the vaya for an allrounder) sure sure I know they're not in the same league at all vs custom, just comparing off the rack to custom suits... but if they can do 80-90% of a custom for 1/2 the price, well then.... (and 'tis not to say i don't support the small artisans...vs overseas taiwanese makers, as I really do believe in buying locally from the smaller artisans IF you can.....just the $$$ difference is pretty wide for me right now, that's all.)

and jeff of lyonsport just replied saying he'll talk with me about a custom...don't know if he'd do one or refer me to someone else....he has a tig'd line (L'avecaise) which is the lesser priced of the two frames he builds....actually is about same price as a Gunnar...hmmmmm......

https://www.lyonsport.com/

then there is curtlo (have emailed him too) https://www.curtlo.com/

or when all is said and done maybe just stick with a stock gunnar sport
https://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/sport/

or their more wide tire accomodating fast lane
https://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/fast-lane/

...or the rivendell sam hillborne...in between an atlantis and hillsen as an allrounder...
https://www.rivbike.com/products/show...amebike/50-700
https://www.ecovelo.info/2009/09/09/like-an-old-friend/

....or lyonsport's tig'd lesser cost L'avecaise frame......both are good bang for the buck ...better tubing and attention to detail than in a salsa or a soma....made in n america so supporting local retailers...

decisions decisions...

Last edited by canali; 09-06-10 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 09-07-10, 02:26 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by DRietz View Post
Do it, you won't regret it. Here's mine:

Like the Moots bits for sure. I'll try the ES version built as a Randonneur. We'll see.
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Old 09-07-10, 07:03 PM
  #28  
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If the likes of Rivendell did not satisfy you, I would suggest JP Weigle or the contemporary reincarnation of Rene Herse.
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Old 09-07-10, 08:00 PM
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I have considered him..and even contacted Peter...long wait list and $$$ (not saying his work isn't worth it)
would love to (heck wouldn't most of us?) but can't afford $5000ish ($2500-3000 for frame/fork/brazeons etc once tallied) and THEN the gruppo/wheels = another $2000ish.
gulp..my budget is $2000-$2500 bike built out (or my sourcing components on my own via craigslist, bikelist.org etc).

Originally Posted by Veloria View Post
If the likes of Rivendell did not satisfy you, I would suggest JP Weigle or the contemporary reincarnation of Rene Herse.
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Old 09-07-10, 09:58 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by gtownviking View Post
Sanner Cycles...deals specifically with neck and back pain issues when designing a bike for the customer.

https://www.sannercycles.com/
+1. He even does framebuilding classes. You could build yourself your own custom
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Old 09-07-10, 11:25 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by canali View Post
I have considered him..and even contacted Peter...long wait list and $$$ (not saying his work isn't worth it)
would love to (heck wouldn't most of us?) but can't afford $5000ish ($2500-3000 for frame/fork/brazeons etc once tallied) and THEN the gruppo/wheels = another $2000ish.
gulp..my budget is $2000-$2500 bike built out (or my sourcing components on my own via craigslist, bikelist.org etc).
Hmmm, I understand. In that case, my two cents: I don't want to be a killjoy here in the discussion of all the different builders, but if you are looking specifically for a Randonneur - meaning a bike that is comfortable for long distance touring - and your budget is as you state, I am skeptical that any of the suggestions made here within that budget (aside perhaps from the Jitensha Studios Ebisu) will rival the Rivendells you've already owned. I'd stick with Rivendell (Sam Hillborne?), but focus on proper sizing and positioning. The idea of a fully custom built bike is exciting, but with your budget I would be careful. A Randonneur type bike is not easy to make, and comfort is a Rivendell specialty.
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Old 09-08-10, 12:49 AM
  #32  
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If randonneuring is your interest, as opposed to owning a "randonneuring" bike, and if custom is not required because of some physical attribute or peculiarity, I would go stock Ti. IMHO, Ti is the ultimate bike material. Performance, weight, durability.

Either:

Bikesdirect Ti cyclocross with whatever mods you want to make.

Look for an Litespeed Appalachian / Blueridge.

Have Lynskey build you one.

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Old 09-08-10, 07:28 AM
  #33  
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thanks veloria as per your comments (copied) below

...i currently as you can see in my signature, a riv atlantis...a bit too big i think...i bought it from taking grant's online PHB measurement and at a time when no retailers here in my city were carrying them...so i 1/went to the US to try a frame (but it was 2 sizes too small...next one up was 2 sizes too big, from their 'bike fit assessment'...so bought from online retailer using the PBH sizing and took the larger size...ie my inseam is 79cm...i stand 5'6"...torso 55, arms 56...frame suggested either a 51"(53 toptube) or 53" (54.5 toptube)...I took the 53" from a riv online vendor...even with the nitto dirt drop stem that shoots up there on the nitto noodles i's a bit of a stretch when in hoods/drops...

in truth now i haven't been riding much all year so maybe i'm just out of cycling (bent over/stretched) shape (hoping so) and at my age of 48 (though i am very active)...so going into see a guy soon who does now sell rivs and gunnars and even steelwool bikes (among others)...will get his feedback on what to do next (not much i can do on stem length given dirt drop i'm using to shorten reach and shoot bars up...2-3" above saddle height already)...or to perhaps put on moustache bars with the dirt drop t o lessen the reach as they come back to me further than do the noodle drop bars.

so this said, if I have to do so i'll sell (sniff sniff) my riv atlantis and use the cash ('tis almost new under 200 km, pimpstripped etc) to go custom (maybe even spend $3-4k if i get a few g notes for my atlantis OR another stock bike asme mentione ie a gunnar fastlane or grandtour tweaked (richard schwinn of waterford/gunnar said they might tweak depending on my measurements when I go to see my LBS selling both the riv and gunnars/waterfords....could use that cash to perhaps buy a much better fitting bike...image will only go so far (and let's face it it's the image that sells us too...i'm now much less into 'bling' bikes: they get ridden less and stolen more (still want a great looking/quality steed of course...but...) hence my thoughts of a custom lyonsport, or allrounders from curtlo or seven cycles, everti, gunnar etc etc...guess


any others on this riv sizing quandary suggestions....

right now i'm riding (alot) my Dekerf Generation '96 Ht.
https://www.dekerf.com/ ...Dekerf is a legendary mtn bike framebuilder here in vancouver bc...(used to design for Rocky Mtn..another quality Canuck company) .am going in to see chris dekerf today to have rear rack brazeons put on...what a fast and yet so comfortable pocket rocket...don't know if that is because of the wider 1.75 semi mtn bike tires i'm running, or due to the front suspension fork ..or frame design...or all three (prob all three items).
...dekerfs rock!

Originally Posted by Veloria View Post
Hmmm, I understand. In that case, my two cents: I don't want to be a killjoy here in the discussion of all the different builders, but if you are looking specifically for a Randonneur - meaning a bike that is comfortable for long distance touring - and your budget is as you state, I am skeptical that any of the suggestions made here within that budget (aside perhaps from the Jitensha Studios Ebisu) will rival the Rivendells you've already owned. I'd stick with Rivendell (Sam Hillborne?), but focus on proper sizing and positioning. The idea of a fully custom built bike is exciting, but with your budget I would be careful. A Randonneur type bike is not easy to make, and comfort is a Rivendell specialty.

Last edited by canali; 09-08-10 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 09-08-10, 07:47 AM
  #34  
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Have you looked at Mercian? Price is right, any geometry you like. Beautiful finish. LOVE mine.

https://merciancycles.co.uk



edit: they just launched a nifty online frame builder:

https://merciancycles.co.uk/frames/57/frame-builder
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Old 09-08-10, 08:04 AM
  #35  
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i've looked at mercians...love the design and finishes, lugs...etc...

that said, however, with tariffs,shipping, overseas shipping insurance (etc) and such when exported to me, in the end IMO they're cost prohibitive (same with thorn and other quality uk builders)...i think we have more than enough great choices right here at home in our own backyards of canada and the usa.
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Old 09-08-10, 08:14 AM
  #36  
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Oh...Canada. OK. Shipping to the US for mine was only $150. With the initial price being almost half what most US builders charge, it was outright cheap to the US. Mine was less than $1500 shipped with upgraded lugs, upgraded tubing, finish options and a ton of braze-on options. If price was an object I could have gotten it for right around $1000. But of course that's to the US, not Canada.

Last edited by GV27; 09-08-10 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 09-08-10, 08:13 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by canali View Post
and with all due respect, Dylansbob, upon researching that name (and thanks), there was also a less than stellar review, too, about QC on bikeforums (or some other blog)....so at this time I'd have to pass.....not saying people don't make mistakes, but when you're new and against established seasoned competition, well then any slips can cost...
There was an instance where we had some communication issues with a client. In light of that, we refunded 100% of his money, and offered to do whatever else I could to make him happy. Even told him he could take our frame building course for free. He made a point to post (and still is actively posts) everywhere he possibly can to damage our name.

So that said, feel free to give us a call and we can come up with a design for you (for free). We specialize in touring and rando framesets, and I have tested our methods by riding our frames coast to coast across the US twice.

Then if you have concerns, feel free to have another builder make the frame.

-Sanner Cycles
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Old 09-08-10, 08:37 PM
  #38  
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Thanks for coming on here to give your position...there are always 2 sides to a story.

Originally Posted by sannerbikes700 View Post
There was an instance where we had some communication issues with a client. In light of that, we refunded 100% of his money, and offered to do whatever else I could to make him happy. Even told him he could take our frame building course for free. He made a point to post (and still is actively posts) everywhere he possibly can to damage our name.

So that said, feel free to give us a call and we can come up with a design for you (for free). We specialize in touring and rando framesets, and I have tested our methods by riding our frames coast to coast across the US twice.

Then if you have concerns, feel free to have another builder make the frame.

-Sanner Cycles
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Old 09-08-10, 09:06 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by canali View Post
Thanks for coming on here to give your position...there are always 2 sides to a story.
And there are some people who are just miserable buggers that you can never please. I have no idea who Sanner is, but one bad review and one guy bad mouthing them wouldn't discourage me at all. There isn't a single builder or make of bikes that someone on this forum doesn't dislike.
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Old 09-08-10, 09:24 PM
  #40  
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Veloria...thanks for reminding me of hiroshi of jitensha studios....given his history and skill level I should certainly shortlist him...good bang for buck...anyone on here own one of his rigs and care to comment?

Terrafermas grande randonneur had pretty awesome review too by jan heine.
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Old 09-09-10, 08:21 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by canali View Post
Veloria...thanks for reminding me of hiroshi of jitensha studios....given his history and skill level I should certainly shortlist him...good bang for buck...anyone on here own one of his rigs and care to comment?
Have a look at nlerner's bike (post #11 on this thread). I have seen this bicycle in person and it is stunning. I also second/third the idea of having a closer look at Mercian. Some very experienced long-distance cyclists I know absolutely love them.

Re the Sanner Bikes drama: I have read the full story on the unhappy customer's blog, and regardless of how cranky he may or may not be as an individual, a frame or fork failure on a 50 mile ride is a serious thing. If it happened due to a miscommunication issue as the builder states (I suppose they could have made a fork that was fine for casual club rides but unsuitable for a hilly, loaded ride?), then this only highlights the importance of knowing what you want from a builder. Manufacturers like Rivendell, Jitensha Studio and Mercier offer touring-specific models, where it is a given that the bicycle's frame and fork will withstand all that touring entails. No communication error possible.
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Old 09-09-10, 09:40 PM
  #42  
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1/ also looking at banjo bikes as links below (ahren rogers is the builder who builds the pelican randonneur for boxer bikes in san francisco...ahren has a good reputation on bikelist.org too..lovely carriers he also makes)
https://www.banjobicycles.com/
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...tra-mile-25244
https://www.bikerumor.com/2010/02/27/...-touring-bike/
(check out the racks...cool)

2/ have sent email to steve bilenky on concept of 'all rounder' (both touring and randonneuring) doable truly or not
...will also discuss with jeff lyonsport when we next communicate.
...also considering tweaked gunnar or waterford and IF club racer...all on short list

3/ veloria: i'm waiting to hear more from other jitensha riders: looks/finish are important but how it rides even more important of course.
...read from one jitensha ebisu (former) owner who has alot of bikes he found the ride to be uninspiring...a bit staid (of course everyone has different expectations/needs/style etc...so am still awaiting others....

mercian suggestion: as mentioned in earlier reply any UK builders are cost prohibitive: we in canada would pay duties, HST taxes (12%) etc...so unless i (cough cough) ''sneak'' it across the border (have it shipped to a US post office) then UK purchases don't make sense. (and i already got busted before for 'cough cough' misquoting accidentally a set of skis...'what mr border officer: i was sure the receipt said $100, not $1000...

4/RENOVO wooden bikes below (cool..not that I'd buy it)
as your suggestion below in quote on 'renovo' = very cool...wooden bikes...just love how people can be innovative.
https://www.renovobikes.com/
will investigate more if only to become familiar....interesting technology and approach

Originally Posted by PDXaero View Post
Another custom builder that I have ridden is a Renovo.
They are amazing and will turn heads wherever you go. Lots of control over the frame building but they do cost more than a fancy looking steel or alu bike

Last edited by canali; 09-10-10 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 09-10-10, 03:26 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Veloria View Post
Have a look at nlerner's bike (post #11 on this thread). I have seen this bicycle in person and it is stunning. I also second/third the idea of having a closer look at Mercian. Some very experienced long-distance cyclists I know absolutely love them.

Re the Sanner Bikes drama: I have read the full story on the unhappy customer's blog, and regardless of how cranky he may or may not be as an individual, a frame or fork failure on a 50 mile ride is a serious thing. If it happened due to a miscommunication issue as the builder states (I suppose they could have made a fork that was fine for casual club rides but unsuitable for a hilly, loaded ride?), then this only highlights the importance of knowing what you want from a builder. Manufacturers like Rivendell, Jitensha Studio and Mercier offer touring-specific models, where it is a given that the bicycle's frame and fork will withstand all that touring entails. No communication error possible.
If I may defend myself, we had that risk calculated. Any builder will tell you that a curved blade lugged DISK fork is a very tough thing to build for many reasons. I used a big name, seasoned, fork builder to make the fork, as I was uncomfortable doing it myself. This builder has many thousands of forks under his belt. He used to build all of the IF forks, and all the Ritchey forks. He sourced thick wall blades to take the force of the twisting force of the disk brake. We knew this was a risk under the design constraints we had, and I thought I communicated that to the customer. The fork did not fail, it pulled slightly out of alignment under braking force. Not surprising at all. But a possibility I now know I should be more conservative about. This was not an out-of-the-blue unexpected failure due to craftsmanship error, but a conscious risk we should have avoided.

So all apologies, 100% refund, and an offer to take our framebuilding class for free.

And if anyone reading this thread is skeptical, come down and take our frame building workshop at a discount, so you can see what goes into building a custom frame.
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Old 09-10-10, 05:09 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by canali View Post
3/vieloria: waiting to hear more from other jitensha riders: looks/finish are important but how it rides even more important of course.
...read from one jitensha ebisu (former) owner who has alot of bikes he found the ride to be uninspiring...a bit staid (of course everyone has different expectations/needs/style etc...so am still awaiting others....
As an Ebisu owner and rider (see post #11 for pics), I can report an excellent experience all around in terms of ordering and lots of satisfaction with the frameset itself. It's my rig for long rides (138 miles the longest so far), and that's because it's a comfortable, very smooth ride (and I had it built for 41mm 650B tires). And by very far, it's my bike with the highest quality worksmanship (and I have over 30 bikes). It's not my lightest and fastest bike, but that has a good deal to do with the components I'm hanging on it.

Neal
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Old 09-10-10, 05:53 PM
  #45  
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VO is having a sale on their rando kit. frame, fork, headset, seatpost...$795.
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Old 09-10-10, 06:09 PM
  #46  
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what will be interesting, too, will be the upcoming soma/rivendell partnership with the (soma) Rodeo San Marcos Sport touring frame
from their blog back in Jan of this year: https://somafab.blogspot.com/2010/01/...h-soma-on.html
...wonder how it will differ from Rambouillet?...anyone have ETA on a release date?

Last edited by canali; 09-10-10 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 09-10-10, 06:12 PM
  #47  
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great to hear that...thank-you for your imput as below, neal...heard similar favourable comments from another rider on their Ebisu today, too.

Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
As an Ebisu owner and rider (see post #11 for pics), I can report an excellent experience all around in terms of ordering and lots of satisfaction with the frameset itself. It's my rig for long rides (138 miles the longest so far), and that's because it's a comfortable, very smooth ride (and I had it built for 41mm 650B tires). And by very far, it's my bike with the highest quality worksmanship (and I have over 30 bikes). It's not my lightest and fastest bike, but that has a good deal to do with the components I'm hanging on it.

Neal

Last edited by canali; 09-10-10 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 09-10-10, 07:01 PM
  #48  
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I am paying very close attention to the conversation on the Rawland blog.

They are in the "near" planning stages of a new model or two.

Check it out when you get a chance, as the model "design" may well slide into rando/brevet territory at a $500 pricepoint for the frameset.

If they do a 700c, with fender eyelets, a decent fork, and room for a 700X38 or so, I'm in.

The geometry looks pretty sweet.

Cantilevers are a given, and I'm hoping for a longer headtube for sure.

If they add braze-ons for racks, all the better.

I can't afford a Sam Hillborne at the moment, but this may cover those bases just fine for me.

If they add a cool paint job, this could be the "modern" XO-1 I've been hankering for as well.

At any rate, it's fun to read and participate in the commentary. I love how the owners of Rawland are into this "focus group" build model.

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Old 09-10-10, 07:08 PM
  #49  
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gomango; your rawlands post below: thanks for bringing in yet another framemaker to discuss and consider....I think it's great that there are price points for everyone who wishes to get into sport touring/ and randonneuring (or whatever type of riding)...and like any passion you devote time and study to, as you become more 'educated'/experienced about what you like and don't like ie differences in materials, and geometry, you can then 'buy up' (if you want) to better quality builders, materials, designers, frames, etc.

interesting on new releases eh ie, a salsa rep replied to me a few days back when I was inquiring about an all rounder (and choosing between casserolle and the vaya), saying in a few wks a new model (that would meet my needs) will be released...and not necessarily in steel (TI?)...haven't finalized yet the design ...

Originally Posted by gomango View Post
I am paying very close attention to the conversation on the Rawland blog.

They are in the "near" planning stages of a new model or two.

Check it out when you get a chance, as the model "design" may well slide into rando/brevet territory at a $500 pricepoint for the frameset.

If they do a 700c, with fender eyelets, a decent fork, and room for a 700X38 or so, I'm in.

The geometry looks pretty sweet.

Cantilevers are a given, and I'm hoping for a longer headtube for sure.

If they add braze-ons for racks, all the better.

I can't afford a Sam Hillborne at the moment, but this may cover those bases just fine for me.

If they add a cool paint job, this could be the "modern" XO-1 I've been hankering for as well.

At any rate, it's fun to read and participate in the commentary. I love how the owners of Rawland are into this "focus group" build model.

https://rawlandcycles.blogspot.com/

Last edited by canali; 09-10-10 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 09-10-10, 08:00 PM
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