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-   -   Please educate me on some old Shimano groups (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/678922-please-educate-me-some-old-shimano-groups.html)

Lazyass 11-04-17 05:54 AM


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 11437747)
Exage came in several levels, kind of matched up with LX100; I've never seen levers that said "Exage"

Exage Sport came on my '88 LeMans and is almost identical to 105, but I like the brake levers better with those rubber thingies for better grip. And the quick release is in the lever, not on the caliper. If anyone is looking at a bike with this group, don't dismiss it as cheap low end stuff. It's very nice.

http://www.velobase.com/CompImages/S...D798E1418.jpeg

http://d2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.net...2e63605690.jpg

http://velobase.com/CompImages/RDera...4455AE5D6.jpeg

Ballenxj 11-04-17 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by JunkYardBike (Post 11437783)
If you want the Shimano hierarchy 1990-1999, look no further: ADFC Fachausschuss Technik - Gruppenübersicht 1990-1999

Very informative, Thank You. :thumb:
Now just for fun, here are a couple links relevant to bicycles and shifting gears in the past.
When were bicycle gears invented? - BikeRadar USA
and
History of bicycle derailleurs at Classic Cycle Bainbridge | Classic Cycle Bainbridge Island Kitsap County

Ballenxj 11-04-17 09:31 AM


Originally Posted by bwilli88 (Post 19971321)
that era Shimano 600 was decorated with a neat flourish and there fore called Arabesque

Definition of Arabesque; The arabesque is a form of artistic decoration consisting of "surface decorations based on rhythmic linear patterns of scrolling and interlacing foliage, tendrils" or plain lines, often combined with other elements.

Thanks, Learn something new (hopefully) every day. :)

T-Mar 11-04-17 11:29 AM


Originally Posted by jimmuller (Post 19971502)
Just one more reason I tend to avoid Shimano stuff. There are 1400 numbers, okay actually only 1399, between 6400 and 7800. Why did they use just some of them? Why switch to numbers at all? Their word engineers run out of ideas?

Shimano never switched to numbers. They've had numbers to complement the names since at least the early 1970s, when I first became aware of them. However, circa 1979-1980 Shimano introduced a simpler, more intuitive numbering system. The system allowed for future expansion and conceivably would never use all the numbers. If they'd had a crystal ball and could have envisioned the proliferation of gruppos and technological growth, they would probably have gone to a six numeral system, but a four digit system probably seemed adequate for the foreseeable future and was more manageable for the consumer and shops.

Certainly, between the part number stamping and date code I can identify and date most Shimano components from the late 1970s onwards, with relative ease. It also makes it far easier for the layman, as the formats and codes are readily available with a cursory search.

Conversely, there were a lot of manufacturers who did not include group names, part numbers or date codes on their components. This makes it extremely difficult to properly identify parts, especially for those new to the sport. The mysticism associated with these parts appeals to a certain crowd, especially after they've learned the parameters for identification, but it doesn't make the components any better.

Jeff Wills 11-05-17 11:05 PM


Originally Posted by jimmuller (Post 19971502)
Just one more reason I tend to avoid Shimano stuff. There are 1400 numbers, okay actually only 1399, between 6400 and 7800. Why did they use just some of them? Why switch to numbers at all? Their word engineers run out of ideas?

It actually makes it more intuitive to follow component evolution through the years.

For instance, for middle-range rear derailleurs:

600EX (1982) RD-6200
600AX (1982) RD-6300
600 Ultegra (1988) RD-6400
Ultegra (1998) RD-6500

There are similar systems throughout the Shimano product lines. It makes it quite easy to track and compare components that are alternate versions from the same year. (For instance, Rapid-Rise vs. not, GS vs. SGS, etc.)

fleslider 11-06-17 12:05 AM


Originally Posted by Jeff Wills (Post 19974876)
It actually makes it more intuitive to follow component evolution through the years.

For instance, for middle-range rear derailleurs:

600EX (1982) RD-6200
600AX (1982) RD-6300
600 Ultegra (1988) RD-6400
Ultegra (1998) RD-6500

There are similar systems throughout the Shimano product lines. It makes it quite easy to track and compare components that are alternate versions from the same year. (For instance, Rapid-Rise vs. not, GS vs. SGS, etc.)

To build upon that, they are Shimano Part numbers.

Dura Ace - 7xxx Series numbers
600/Ultergra- 6xxx Series Numbers
Sante - 5xxx Series numbers (Late 1980's)
105 - 105x or 5xxx Series Numbers (number scheme changed to 5xxx series when 9 speed was introduced

So by having this we can start to decipher what it is. Shimano also has a standard for the type of component. like RD: Rear Derailleur
FD: Front Derailleur
SL: Shift Lever
BR: Brake
BL: Brake Lever
HB: Hub
FC: Front Chain Wheel (cranks)
HP: Headset
FH: Freehub Hub,eg Cassette Hub
MF: Multi Speed Freewheel
CS: Cassette Cluster
BB: Bottom Bracket
(there are more but thats what i can think of top of my head.)

With that we can figure out what say a mystery front Derailleur has stamped on it as FD-6401
FD= Front Derailuer
6xxx Series would be 600/Ultegra
401 would be the 4th generation 2 revision of the piece in this case:8 speed

so we have a 600 Ultegra 8 Speed front derailleur

MTN grouppos have a similiar hierarchy

jimmuller 11-06-17 05:35 AM


Originally Posted by fleslider (Post 19974936)
To build upon that, they are Shimano Part numbers.
...
So by having this we can start to decipher what it is. Shimano also has a standard for the type of component.

Well, thank all of you for the clarifications, but you see, there is a subtle subtext to my first note in this thread. Through the course of bike history to which I have paid attention (which admittedly has waxed and waned over the decades), Shimano have continually churned out more and more varieties of everything, and invented new names as they went. It has been successful from a business standpoint because they are still with us. From a casual-consumer standpoint it sows confusion and thus disinterest. Which is why threads like this get started in the first place.

Three or four model names are fairly easy to follow, and the concept of hierarchy is meaningful only for models which are contemporary. Part numbers are essential for good manufacturing and engineering and inventory control. But a number such as 6401 could fall anywhere in the manageably convenient part of the infinite number line. Thus it is immemorable, forgettable. And there are lots of other 6401's in the world. Other than taking up more space a value like 672434.7 or 0x0F33FE56 could be perfectly equivalent. To Shimano's credit they seem to have maintained a numerical hierarchy which reflects the "quality" or price range. But even that needn't have been true. I'd rather have to remember a name like Exage, as silly as it is, than remember an arbitrary number.

Which that's just my opinion, now ain't it?

Jeff Wills 11-06-17 11:27 PM


Originally Posted by jimmuller (Post 19975049)
Which that's just my opinion, now ain't it?

True. However, IMO, the names are far less descriptive of the components. "Dura-Ace" has a smidgen of meaning (Durable? Best?), but "Ultegra"? What's an "Exage"?

Fun fact: the original Deore group was for touring. (Take a look at the 1982 dealer catalog.) All of the components featured a deer logo. I think that "Deore" is a Japanese corruption of "deer" or it may simply be an adaptation of the English word.

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/dow...le.php?id=2257

T-Mar 11-07-17 08:45 AM

While Deore started out as a touring group in 1981, the stag's head emblem did not appear on the components until it was redesigned as an ATB group, circa 1983-1984. The application was further emphasized by adding the XT (cross terrain) suffix.

I believe that Dura-Ace is derived from Duraluminum or Dural, which which were trade names for an aluminum-copper alloy that was one of the earliest high strength aluminum alloys and popular in aviation applications. Like many name trade names, it was generically applied to any product made from high grade aluminum and continued in use long after the introduction of higher strength alloys.

noglider 11-07-17 09:05 AM

I understand your view, [MENTION=190941]jimmuller[/MENTION], and I share it slightly. Too many choices indicates they're more interested in increasing shelf-space, so to speak, the same way soap and toilet paper makers have different brands so you're almost sure to buy one of them. And the way Shimano's stuff goes obsolete quickly is annoying. But they deserve credit for lots of innovation. You can get a good value out of Shimano if buy something behind the leading edge, because that stuff is based on last year's Dura Ace improvements.

stardognine 11-07-17 04:01 PM

I saved that XT pic, it's pretty sweet. 😎
Does anyone know about the chromy-looking Tri-color 600, compared to the more common gray-painted version? I just recently bought an '87 or '88 model year Cannondale, with the chromy type, partly because I couldn't recall seeing them before. 🙂


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