School me re: Centurion
 

I've been getting interested in Centurions with all the good press they receive from their owners.

I've been looking at a couple of models, and I've got a buddy who wants a speedy bike.

I've heard its a good bike, but how does the Centurion Dave Scott Ironman stack up in terms of stiffness and eagerness to accelerate and handling against other go-fast bikes like a Team Miyata or a 3rensho or a Insert-Fast-Japanese/Italian-Steel-here) ?


To my eye it looks wildly painted, although not terribly flashy otherwise, understated if you will. The rear geometry looks tight, not pure-racing-bike short chainstays still short. The head tube angle looks more like it belongs on a tourer...or a Raleigh DL-1 :lol:

is it just my eye or are the frame angles a little...unconventional for the kind of bike it wants to be?



When I hear the name "Dave Scott" I think of crappy department store Huffy-esque mountain bikes, although I KNOW that centurion is in a different league...

I know what the first page of google results can tell me.. Educate me please.

I just picked up my first Centurion yesterday (an Ironman Expert,) so I only have a half day's experience under my belt :) I haven't really studied the geometry closely, but I can say that it handles nothing like a tourer.

As I went out onto the road, I realized that I left the rear brake quick-release undone, and reached back to flip it up while I rode, and I was instantly off into the grass. It took me a few minutes to adjust to the responsive steering.

Maybe OT, but what does Dave Scott have to do with mountain bikes?

I'm betting $20 that Robbie logs in sometime soon, writes a book on the fine qualities of Centurions, and becomes your new best friend.

I've had two Centurions over the last couple of years, and found them both to be fine bikes just not my size (one too big, and one too small) but never a Dave Scott. I'm looking for one of those.

Frame angles on the "normal" sized Ironmen from '85-'87 were 73*, parallel seat and head. The geometry changed slightly in '88 (ST v TT lengths), the same time they went to the tigged front fork, but I don't know if the angles changed.

But no, the angles are not unusual for a "go-fast" bike.

honestly no clue, I just remember some crappy Dept store huffy MTB's back when I was a kid with his name slapped on them. I could be mistaken, but really its not what I'm trying to find out in this thread.

When I think of Dave Scott Centurions, I think of good stuff.

Have you read Sheldon's Centurion article? He talks about the different Dave Scott models. Plus, T-Mar helped out on it.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/centurion/

yep, understated :innocent:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2698/...309636dd_b.jpg


size makes a big difference. mine is 63cm, and it is light, smooth, and quick. stiff? not really, but how stiff can a 63cm tange 1 be?

I wish I didn't sell mine.
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/4800/1001801vd1.jpg

Mines for sale, STI's too

They are EXCELLENT BIKEs, mines a 58 and is a tad to big for me, I have been flipping bikes all summer, about 20, and this one has been with me the whole time, even though its to big.

I can ride this for ever, which I attribute to the biopace cranks and great geometry.

The frames of the Expert and Master are the same, just the master has high end 600 Tricolor Shimano and the Expert has the mid range 105's

http://i51.tinypic.com/jtasqt.jpg

Ok i didn't mean the paint job was understated :lol: I mean it doesn't seem like an ornately constructed frame like say, a DeRosa.

I 'honestly don't know how stiff Tange 1 can be...do you mean to say its flimsy? I'm using my 60cm '84 Team Miyata as a basis for comparison.

@Robtown, what about it makes you wish you didn't sell it?

...I don't want this to be a valuation thread, but If you saw yours for sale for 350 and all other conditions were permitting, would you buy it back?

who's the fruit with the lei's? Please tell me you 'shopped that in :lol:

That's right around my size dude :)

I really want to put sti's on my Dave Scott, That one looks pretty good!

Does it come with the matching scooter?

With shipping I paid 364$ for mine it is an 89 master.

everything is for sale :)

"How much for the little girl? How much for the women?"

Great Movie


............its dark, and we're wearing sunglasses...........hit it

"...this mall has EVERYTHING....."

Not sure where to begin on Centurions. It's just my niche, and my opinion is tempered by that, I guess.

OK, first, the article on www.sheldonbrown.com was written pretty much by former BF user ID A.Winthrop, known as Ashley Wright in first life, a long-time journalist who pretty much hangs out in the the real Far East and Princeton. He turned me on to them. T-Mar is the mental repository of facts and data on tons and tons of bikes, as well as an engineer who really knows how and why bikes do things right and wrong. Neither of them are really monitoring this site any more. I'm just a fan, an informed amateur.

From about 1983 through 1989, Centurion was probably one of the hottest brands out there, in quality for the dollar. The philosphy seemed to be to make a bike comparable to the good Italian bikes at half the price, with better quality. The Japanese were using Deming's quality control process to make frames on a par with the Italians, with better finishes, at half the cost. Combining these frames with a higher level of Suntour and Shimano than the competition was the key to a heck of a bike for the money.

1983 was a good hint at things to come, 1984 really brought them into a market presence (and showed they were serious at making high-end bikes) and 1985 was probalby their top lineup year, with the introduction of the Ironman (mid-level in 1985). The Tange 1 frame, with their geometry, was their offering of a top-end training bike that could also be raced on. It was extremely well finished, was in the uppper levels of competitiveness, and was affordable. The Tange 2 was Centurion's really smart move, as it enabled them to sell tons and tons of Lemans and Lemans RS models for $300 less than an Ironman, and only be a few ounces heavier.

Centurion rode the Tange 1 with the Ironman for 5 years because it was that good. It is light, agile, well-balanced, and has a good enough fork to corner very well. So did my Pinarello, but you wouldn't find me hanging my Pin' on a rack with 25 other bikes, wetsuits, pumps, waiting for me to finish my run leg and go home. The Ironman, heck, that's what it was made for, and you could leave it on the rack and have a couple of beers and not worry about it, then toss it on the trunk rack and take it home.

The Ironman frame, as well as the Turbo and Prestige, were simply well-made frames. They really show up as quality when you add modern wheels, much more so than did my PDG Paramount OS or Trek Y-Foil. I can't compare them to others, because I don't have others. I would imagine the Prestige and the Panasonic DX6000 ride pretty much the same, both being basically the same frame, probably made at the same place.

As far as race geometry, I don't really know. It's certainly quicker geometry than most road bikes, but it's not a TT/Tri bike like you see out there today. I've ridden a Team Fuji, Eddie Merckx, Cinelli Super Corsa, Trek 5000 US Postal, a bunch of Trek "others," but no Team Miyata or 3Rensho. The Ironman may not be the best 15-mile TT or Tri leg bike, and at that distance, you miss a shift or two and you're time is toast, anyway. However, you want to go 100 miles in under 5 hours and be able to walk easily into the BBQ joint? Get the Ironman.

If your friend truly wants a go-fast, high-end C&V, he may be better off with a different bike at twice the price. He's after weight, a great fork, twitchy handling, and a frame that needs his attention all the time. He's not afraid to suffer for speed. He's better off with a bike made for racing only. The Ironman is a pedal stroke or two off of that for every quarter mile, but it's designed to put the average rider into the game, and good enough to elevate the game of a good rider.

Only one caveat: the black 1989 Ironman Expert seems, by all accounts, to be more aggressive than all of the other Ironman models. It is not as smooth. It is twitchy. It rides lighter, it is more agile and can really stick a corner. Centurion spec'd a new geometry for 1989, but the other '89's I have/have had do not scramble like the '89 Expert. I only know of two others with both the black Expert and another Ironman to compare it to. Both agree. I have no other proof or evidence, but both of them know their stuff, and my fastest tri leg ever was on one, by over 1mph. Set up right, and racing, the frame doesn't exist. It's just you and the pedals and bar and gearing.

If I was out to buy a go-fast steelie, I'd look first for a black '89 Expert, use the money I saved for a set of Mavic Ksyrium Elites (on sale at Competitive Cyclist for almost half price). Then I'd go from there and build it to race.

Barring that, I'd probably be able to buy two Ironman bikes for the price of a bike faster enough to make a real difference. I'd set on up for centuries and one for hammering, and call it a day.

If just having a fast Centurion is the ticket, get the aluminum Facet, raced by the girls in the mid 80's. The 58cm bike, with Suntour Sprint, weighed around 19 lbs, OEM. Try a 56cm, maybe. Then, upgrade it with some Ksyrium Elites and a modern STI drivetrain, cheap and affordable, like a 9-sp Ultegra or 105 group. You'd probably have the 80's bike to beat. I'll let you know how it comes out.

No disclaimer needed, I guess. It's no secret where I stand on the issue. It's hard to describe an Ironman. Perhaps just use the wide-spread popularity as a guide and trust in everyone else.

I think thats what makes it so good, for the price and rarity, the Iron Man is the best of all worlds. I have no prob keeping up with anyone in my riding group, heck I am the one cutting the wind most of the time, and when we are all done, I just feel like I road a few miles.

One day Ill get one in 56cm, that WILL be a keeper, I promise :)

I know you weren't asking me, but I paid $165 for mine off craigslist, not really having an idea what a screaming deal I was getting. I got incredibly lucky, as at the time I couldn't have told you the difference between a $350, 600-equipped speed machine and a 30 lb clunker worth $50. If it were stolen, I would pay $350 in a heartbeat to get another.

I'm not the strongest (or most experienced) rider by any stretch, but I know I love the ride of the bike. It makes me feel fast.

And that "fruit" is the Man himself, Mr. Dave Scott.

bravo Robbie! great post.

Robbie is the Man. Check out the nostalgic response to this post:

http://forums.serotta.com/showthread.php?t=76721

RFC, you've owned both a Team Miyata and a Centurion Ironman Expert. Can you compare the two?