TommyL

I got a frame off of craigslist for the Nuovo record components that were still on it. The frame is puzzling me, however. It has some basic Columbus tubing, "Tubi Rinforzati Garantiti, Acciaio Speciale." I read somewhere that was like a precursor Columbus SL.

The real clue is that the tops of the seat stays and the fork have a logo that looks like a very simple "C" with a heart in the middle.

The components are not much help as their has been a lot of swapping, but Nuovo Record dérailleurs, Sugino Super mighty cranks, Campy headset, Guiemme (sp?) bottom bracket. Dia compe brakes, Cinelli "Mod. Giro d'Italia" handlebars. The original wheelset is gone.

Ideas? I'll put up pics later.

TommyL

Pictures...



Interesting C Heart logo, the same thing is on the fork:



The bottom bracket has cut outs and there is a rubber layer exposed. It has done a good job protecting the bb, because it spins great still:



Can anybody out there help me ID this?

nwbikeman

Well my guess would be a De Rosa as they use a heart in the decals. The fade paint of the eight's early 90's and check frame spacing.

unworthy1

It's not a precursor, it is SL tubing. I'd be stoked if this was a DeRosa in the rough...but I have a feeling it's a faker (hope I'm wrong) but in any case it looks like a good frame, fake or not. You say it's a "C" and not a circle? Show us a pic of the forkcrown. Any clues that it's a re-spray?
oh, and it's Gipiemme (GPM in Italian)

TommyL

I checked the spacing and it's 125-126mm. Also, I checked the RD and it says "Pat. 81". That means, 1981, right?

Here is the fork crown. It's chrome, not black, just bad light in my basement.

TommyL

It seems to have been painted white, and then fade blue over the top. The blue is coming off in a couple of places and revealing white underneath.

The paint job hasn't chipped a ton, but it has this dirtiness, like being smudged with grease, that simply won't come off. I tried simple green, which usually does the trick. No dice.

Considering the paint scheme isn't that cool to begin with, it's definitely a candidate for a repaint.

unworthy1

well that is clearly a "C" and this is clearly not a DeRosa, but...I feel like I've seen the pantograph before but can't even recall where. It might have been here, so if you're up to a long archive search you might find something.
As far as "81": that is the year of the RD, but this frame has 2 set of water bottle bosses, under BB plastic guide and FD tab, it could be just a little later than '81.
You might need to use something stronger than SG, try WD40 and if no luck move on to mineral spirits...then try a complete oxalic acid soak for the rust, of just get everything blasted off and repaint.
Looks like a decent Italian frame, what's the seat post size?

RoboIsGod

Another trick for getting random greese off: use car wax. it cleans and shines at the same time!

canyoneagle

Looks like a pretty nice frame.
I'd blast it and repaint it - IMO the paint is way past "patina", though some here may disagree. From the looks of the paint, it looks like a pretty bad paint job (uneven thickness, etc), so I would not be surprised if it has already been re-sprayed (poorly). Of course, the Italians were not known for the quality of their paint jobs, so who knows.

I've seen that pantograph before, but can't recall who's it is.

TommyL

Well, hopefully someone can recognize the pantograph. I am really curious! It's too small for me, so other than a little cleaning up, I'll let the next owner decide how they want to tackle the paint job.

For the rust on the fork, what's the best way to get it off? I'm guessing steel wool is a no-no. An oxalic acid soak sounds... messy.

It's a 51cm c to c.

jettore

Hit the fork with a ball of aluminum foil dipped in cola. It'll remove the rust and restore the shin.

TommyL

I've searched high and low on the internet. Is there nobody out there who recognizes this logo? I am so disappointed in you C & Vers right now...

RobbieTunes

Cilo frames that I've seen have some elements in common with that frame:
1-heart theme. I've not seen that stamp before, but the cutouts on later frames were hearts.
2-Columbus SL tubing.
3-Vitus BB cable guide.
4-Gipiemme chrome forks just like that one, no logo.

If the BB on the R side loosens counterclockwise, and is Italian, it could be a Cilo.
Just a wild guess.

TommyL

I don't think it's a Cilo, after looking at photos online...

bentchamber

Edit: Maybe it is this kind of bike? Hearts and C pantographs?

Mr. Fiorelli built bikes for Angelo Fausto Coppi who held the hour
record from 1942-56. This particular frame is a 'Campionissimo' model
(meaning champion of champions) in tribute to Coppi. the frame has
heart shaped cutouts in the lugs and is built from Columbus tubing.
Coppi and "C" are phantographed into the fork, chainring and stem.
beautiful lugged frame, components with some history, original
paint...

https://velospace.org/node/32514

TommyL

As much as I want to believe it, the Fiorelli Coppi bikes I've seen all have a C with laurels. not a C with a heart. The pantographs also looked a little more detailed.

Thanks for trying!

unworthy1

I keep doing little searches but can't get lucky...I'm also pretty sure it's not a Cilo or a Coppi, but wouldn't rule out a Belg-Ital pedigree: did you confirm the BB shell as 70mm and Italian (36x 24) threading?
I'd suggest sending to the CR list (with a link to your pics) for their help:
https://www.bikelist.org/mailman/list...ssicrendezvous
you can search their archives without joining, but you have to know what you're looking for to get good search results, just going for "C" bikes-with-a-heart yields nada.

Michael Angelo 

Ciocc?

unworthy1

^no.

TommyL

The cups are Gipiemme and say

GIPIEMME 1.370" X 24* MADE IN ITALY

I thought I measured 70mm but I guess it could be 68mm. After seeing what's on the cup it sounds British threaded...

unworthy1

Yes, British threading...I'm going back to my Belg-Ital theory (and so should you) since that's where most of these weirdo frames (mixing Italian tubing and DOs with BSC BB shells, etc,) eventually are connected to. It might have been made in Italy for a Belgian importer or shop, or just made in Belgium (or NL) using Italian components and tubing, but that's where I'd search. Wish I had more to go on...but, Good Luck!

JohnSqual

Hey,

I know this is an oldish thread by now, but I came across a Clemenso bike with the same circle-heart logo on the fork crown recently. Clemenso
was a Belgian brand from a town called Diest. It went out of business in the 90's, I think. This would confirm unworthy's Belg-Ital theory.

You can find a little bit about the maker here, including a photo in which you can just about see the logo on the seat stays:

https://www.lfgss.com/thread53039.html

I've actually got an old Clemenso I use for commuting, a single speed conversion I got second hand. Rides nicely.

Cheers,

John

unworthy1

Thanks for that update, John...
I think we have a winner: Clemenso. (it's nice when there's some 'closure' to these mystery bike threads!)

TommyL

Wow! Thanks, John! I am so excited to finally know what it is. I was just about to post it in the marketplace as a "mystery frame," now I can give some actual history.