Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

What is vintage

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

What is vintage

Old 09-27-10, 04:37 PM
  #26  
vjp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
In the vernacular, it seems to just mean "not new". I use it in ad's like a wine maker, ie: "1973 Vintage Colnago".
vjp is offline  
Old 09-27-10, 05:07 PM
  #27  
jtgotsjets
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 1,755

Bikes: Miele Azsora, Kuwahara Cascade

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Don't waste your time with hypothetical questions. Just post your bike and we'll talk about it, whether it's vintage or not.

To me, this board is much more about a group of people with similar tastes and philosophies on cycling than it is about any specific date range.
jtgotsjets is offline  
Old 09-27-10, 05:28 PM
  #28  
mickey85
perpetually frazzled
 
mickey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Linton, IN
Posts: 2,470

Bikes: 1977 Bridgestone Kabuki Super Speed; 1979 Raleigh Professional; 1983 Raleigh Rapide mixte; 1974 Peugeot UO-8; 1993 Univega Activa Trail; 1972 Raleigh Sports; 1967 Phillips; 1981 Schwinn World Tourist; 1976 Schwinn LeTour mixte; 1964 Western Flyer

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
Generally, you'll get away with discussing it on C&V if it is more than 20 years old, or nearly so. Beyond that it gets squishy.
I'll agree with that. Remember, until 1993 or so, most road bikes and hybrids came with freewheels and downtube shifters that were available with a friction option. After that, you start getting index-only, bar shifters (especially as brifters seem to have come into vogue in 1995 or so), and cassettes, all of which when, original to the bike, mark the end of a bike being classic, IMO. My newest C&V, IMO, would be my 89/90 Fuji Palisade. I've got a '93 Univega, but that's getting iffy for me to call it a classic. Oversized tubes and original index-only trigger shifters move it out of that realm for me.
mickey85 is offline  
Old 09-27-10, 05:37 PM
  #29  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 27,910

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 105 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2098 Post(s)
Liked 3,326 Times in 1,688 Posts


-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Old 09-27-10, 06:20 PM
  #30  
Sixty Fiver
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
 
Sixty Fiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: YEG
Posts: 27,268

Bikes: See my sig...

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times in 32 Posts
Originally Posted by khatfull View Post
I maintain something can be vintage but not classic.
I agree with that.
Sixty Fiver is offline  
Old 09-27-10, 06:27 PM
  #31  
thirdgenbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,107
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
My Pinarello is from around '98, but it's lugged butted steel, horizontal TT, 25.4 and 28.6 tubes, 1" threaded fork, 32h box section rims... Not vintage or classic, maybe traditional?
my 96 tommasini has the came characteristics. i'm officially calling it neo-vintage
thirdgenbird is offline  
Old 09-27-10, 06:52 PM
  #32  
mickey85
perpetually frazzled
 
mickey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Linton, IN
Posts: 2,470

Bikes: 1977 Bridgestone Kabuki Super Speed; 1979 Raleigh Professional; 1983 Raleigh Rapide mixte; 1974 Peugeot UO-8; 1993 Univega Activa Trail; 1972 Raleigh Sports; 1967 Phillips; 1981 Schwinn World Tourist; 1976 Schwinn LeTour mixte; 1964 Western Flyer

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
I'd call it traditional. Or classic. The vintage styled Fujis that they're selling now would be considered classic in my book...Especially the Connoisseur...mmm...
mickey85 is offline  
Old 09-27-10, 07:48 PM
  #33  
mcgreivey
STFD
 
mcgreivey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Bergen, NJ
Posts: 778

Bikes: '80 Windsor Carrera Sport, '02 Specialized Sirrus A1, '10 Giant Escape 2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I'm comfortable with calling my '80 Windsor Carrera Sport "old". It's probably not a classic. Vintage? It hasn't improved or mellowed with age (though I like it a lot). I suppose some would label it "vintage" because it has a lugged steel frame (and chromed lugs at that).

I dunno. I'd rather this were the "Old Bike Forum", but as long as I find interesting discussions of old bikes here, I don't mind one way or the other.
mcgreivey is offline  
Old 09-28-10, 11:33 AM
  #34  
vinfix
Steel80's
 
vinfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 636

Bikes: Breezer Venturi, Breezer Lightning Pro, Schwinn Peloton

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts
If it's a road bike, it has a quill stem and down-tube shifters. Extra points for lugged steel, horizontal drop-outs, Campy parts, tubular tires, or combinations there-of.
vinfix is offline  
Old 09-28-10, 02:33 PM
  #35  
zandoval 
Senior Member
 
zandoval's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 3,682

Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 650 Post(s)
Liked 1,030 Times in 663 Posts
Vintage is a hard question - I would go with the big leaps in frame design and geometry making an era - I remember the days when cottered cranks and center pull breakes were the standard and a frame with any aluminum was high tech - So - Vintage 50s - Vintage 60s - Vintage 70s ... and so on... Imagine a genetically modified bamboo plant that is grown to you specific dimensions then trimmed, hardened, and tapped for hardware... Of course it would have to be painted green... HA... Vintage 2020... OK I stand corrected... They already do it... sustainlane.com/reviews/how-to-build-a-bamboo-bicycle/R12WLA3VKVISP8R1BLL193WZISP8

Last edited by zandoval; 09-28-10 at 02:38 PM. Reason: Correction
zandoval is offline  
Old 09-28-10, 09:31 PM
  #36  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,470

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1690 Post(s)
Liked 558 Times in 420 Posts
Originally Posted by khatfull View Post
Not again...

This is one of the recurring threads that actually annoys me simply because there is NO answer. Classic and vintage is whatever it means to the person asking. No more, no less.

EDIT: I guess I should have added my criteria...

Classic refers to style, I know it when I see it.
Vintage refers to age, the cutoff point is arbitrary.

Close enough?
And just to muddy the waters (stir up the dregs?) a little more, in wine, "vintage" does not mean "old" or "older" or even "OOOOLDDERRRR." The word refers to the process of making wine. The vintage year is the the year in which most of the grapes are grown, picked and processed. The term for wine that has been stored in an attempt to make it better is "aged" or "matured." You can store good wine too long, in which case it just gets old and sour.

It's become a euphemism for "old" when one wants to imply that what's old was and may still be better than what's new.

For bikes, cars, clothing, jewelry, audio, pens, et cetera, it has no real definition, but I think it falls into the euphemistic category.

I agree with khatfull, it's a discussion that can't be resolved.
Road Fan is offline  
Old 09-28-10, 09:58 PM
  #37  
cb400bill
Humble Administrator
 
cb400bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,781

Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR gravel Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2869 Post(s)
Liked 5,160 Times in 3,065 Posts
Originally Posted by jtgotsjets View Post
Don't waste your time with hypothetical questions. Just post your bike and we'll talk about it, whether it's vintage or not.

To me, this board is much more about a group of people with similar tastes and philosophies on cycling than it is about any specific date range.
+1
__________________
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Fenders protect you from tire splatter. Mudguards protect you from tyre splatter.







cb400bill is offline  
Old 09-28-10, 10:18 PM
  #38  
Allvit54
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Brunswick, ME USA
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
...It's become a euphemism for "old" when one wants to imply that what's old was and may still be better than what's new.

For bikes, cars, clothing, jewelry, audio, pens, et cetera, it has no real definition, but I think it falls into the euphemistic category.

I agree with khatfull, it's a discussion that can't be resolved.
...+1. Along with any discussion of 'vintage' items of most any kind, there is invariably a 'they just don't make 'em like that anymore' mentality, with the clear implication that the older stuff was made better, that goes along with it. I also belong to an antique radio forum where that mentality is very evident. And in all honesty and fairness, there is a certain amount of validity to that mentality...I'll submit as one example relevant to this forum that I have some familiarity with: the Huret Allvit RD. It certainly would qualify as 'vintage' if we used a strictly age-based criterion, since it hasn't been made since, what, the mid-70s?...and has been called a 'low-end' RD and apparently had some bad press (?)...but personally, I believe the thing was well-made for a 'low-end' item...how many 'low-end' items were bolted together (instead of riveted) so you could completely disassemble them for cleaning/servicing like that?...yes, 'they don't make 'em like that anymore'...

Last edited by Allvit54; 09-29-10 at 09:39 AM.
Allvit54 is offline  
Old 09-29-10, 05:19 AM
  #39  
fuji86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Flagler Palm Coast, FL
Posts: 1,959

Bikes: 1986 Fuji Allegro 12 Spd; 2015 Bianchi Kuma 27.2 24 Spd; 1997 Fuji MX-200 21 Spd; 2010 Vilano SS/FG 46/16

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Vintage to me is whatever year of manufacture bike that you have, like wine:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vintage

Every bike in the strictest definition of the word is vintage. Whether it's classic or antique is another acid test marked by time and general acceptance or agreement of bike connoisseurs/experts. Components, frames as they've evolved in production method & design help delineate and determine classic and antique as well. I think for a car to be an antique, it has to be 30 or more years old to be able to get an antique license plate. So I'd say every bike is vintage, Classic varies from a recognizable change of design and production methods and antique is equal to or greater than 30 years. So a 1970's road bike is Vintage 1970's, Classic 1970's and Antique 1970's. A mid 1980's bike, is vintage mid 1980's, Classic mid 1980's, but 5 years away from being a mid 1980's antique.
fuji86 is offline  
Old 09-29-10, 09:38 AM
  #40  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,470

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1690 Post(s)
Liked 558 Times in 420 Posts
Originally Posted by Allvit54 View Post
,,,+1. Along with any discussion of 'vintage' items of most any kind, there is invariably a 'they just don't make 'em like that anymore' mentality, with the clear implication that the older stuff was made better, that goes along with it. I also belong to an antique radio forum where that mentality is very evident. And in all honesty and fairness, there is a certain amount of validity to that mentality...I'll submit as one example relevant to this forum that I have some familiarity with: the Huret Allvit RD. It certainly would qualify as 'vintage' if we used a strictly age-based criterion, since it hasn't been made since, what, the mid-70s?...and has been called a 'low-end' RD and apparently had some bad press (?)...but personally, I believe the thing was well-made for a 'low-end' item...how many 'low-end' items were bolted together (instead of riveted) so you could completely disassemble them for cleaning/servicing like that?...yes, 'they don't make 'em like that anymore'...
Of the Allvit I've heard it said, the bad part is that they won't get any better with age, and the bad part is that they won't break due to age. Well-made and low-end, indeed!

This summer Mrs. Road Fan almost bought an Allvit-equipped Raleigh Sport roadster for a short commuter - it shifted as badly as I remembered!

Actually, once the cage moved, it shifted smoothly and needed minimal feathering. The problem was that there was so much stiction and possibly elasticity that the cage did not follow the shift lever well at all.
Road Fan is offline  
Old 09-29-10, 01:20 PM
  #41  
cehowardGS
Motorcycle RoadRacer
 
cehowardGS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,828
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I was getting ready to start a thread on "how old a bike has to be to be vintage. Glad I did a search!

Still didn't find what I wanted..

Straight question.

Would a 1996 Litespeed Classic be a "vintage classic"**********

An Old Man wants to know!!
cehowardGS is offline  
Old 09-29-10, 01:39 PM
  #42  
Mike Mills
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,929
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'll give you my opinion just because it's lunch time and I stumbled across this thread.

Vintage -

This one is fairly straight-forward. Everything has a vintage and everything is vintage. Vintage defines the year of making the item. "That is a vintage 2010 bike, the other one is a vintage 1910 bike." or perhaps, "That is a 1975 vintage."

Classic -

The definition of "classic" is less straight-forward. I liked 65er's definition, "... of enduring interest...". This can apply to just about anything. It can apply to Klein's, which were made for only a few short years, or it can apply to the Peugeot PX-10, which was made like,...forever. It can apply to the latest hipster flash-in-the-pan because the item takes its styling cues from something in the past, "Classic styling,..." or "Wow, that bike is built like a 60's-classic Paramount track bike." it might even be like a "classic" path racer.

There are also generational aspects to this question, too. A young guy would find a 1990's bike to be vntage and classic whereas a 1970's boom-era bike is almost an historical object. They might revere the 70's bike as a classic steel-framed road bike, whereas, in the larger historical context, they, too, were just a passing fad - cheap, crude, wannabe copies of classic European road race bikes.

"What you have there is a classic 1970's boom era bike." What this means (the unspoken truth) is you have an inexpensive, crudely made look-alike copy of what was being used in the European road racing circles of the era. Truth is the new hate speech.

All in all, I hate the terms because they mean whatever the author wants them to mean. In that regard, without knowing the author's definition, they are meaningless, in and of themselves.
Mike Mills is offline  
Old 09-29-10, 01:43 PM
  #43  
Oldpeddaller
Senior Member
 
Oldpeddaller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maidstone, Kent, England
Posts: 2,637

Bikes: 1970 Holdsworth Mistral, Vitus 979, Colnago Primavera, Corratec Hydracarbon, Massi MegaTeam, 1935 Claud Butler Super Velo, Carrera Virtuoso, Viner, 1953 Claud Butler Silver Jubilee, 1954 Holdsworth Typhoon, 1966 Claud Butler Olympic Road, 1982 Claud

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
And just to muddy the waters (stir up the dregs?) a little more, in wine, "vintage" does not mean "old" or "older" or even "OOOOLDDERRRR." The word refers to the process of making wine. The vintage year is the the year in which most of the grapes are grown, picked and processed. The term for wine that has been stored in an attempt to make it better is "aged" or "matured." You can store good wine too long, in which case it just gets old and sour.
Hay Guys, I just found out that I'M VINTAGE !!!!!
Oldpeddaller is offline  
Old 09-29-10, 03:00 PM
  #44  
sykerocker 
Senior Member
 
sykerocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ashland, VA
Posts: 4,419

Bikes: The keepers: 1958 Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix, 1968 Ranger, 1969 Magneet Sprint, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1973 Raleigh Tourist, 3 - 1986 Rossins, and a '77 PX-10 frame in process.

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 220 Post(s)
Liked 233 Times in 127 Posts
The true definition of "vintage" or "classic" depends on whether you are buying or selling . . . . . . . .
__________________
Syke

“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”

H.L. Mencken, (1926)

sykerocker is offline  
Old 09-29-10, 03:06 PM
  #45  
sykerocker 
Senior Member
 
sykerocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ashland, VA
Posts: 4,419

Bikes: The keepers: 1958 Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix, 1968 Ranger, 1969 Magneet Sprint, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1973 Raleigh Tourist, 3 - 1986 Rossins, and a '77 PX-10 frame in process.

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 220 Post(s)
Liked 233 Times in 127 Posts
Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
Actually, once the cage moved, it shifted smoothly and needed minimal feathering. The problem was that there was so much stiction and possibly elasticity that the cage did not follow the shift lever well at all.
Back in the day, I used to periodically disassemble mine and coat the friction points with powdered graphite. It made them shift well. Whether it was worth the trouble, though, is another matter. Once I owned more than two bikes, I no longer rode Allvit's.

The derailleur's longevity was due to those magic words "Schwinn Approved". Roll your bike over on the right side, hard, and it'll still work afterwards. Which is more than you could say for anything else on the market at that time.
__________________
Syke

“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”

H.L. Mencken, (1926)

sykerocker is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
wphamilton
Classic & Vintage
90
09-21-19 10:23 AM
OHMO
Classic & Vintage
12
08-01-18 11:27 PM
lhbernhardt
Classic & Vintage
42
03-11-17 02:56 PM
OGR8
Classic & Vintage
49
07-19-11 05:51 PM
Allvit54
Classic & Vintage
29
09-17-10 12:44 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.