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Is this an English vintage bike/frame?

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Is this an English vintage bike/frame?

Old 10-20-10, 07:46 AM
  #1  
nemoo
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Is this an English vintage bike/frame?

Hi All,

My first post here so please be gentle and I hope this the right place to pose this question.

I've acquired an old bike from my dad with no background info on make/model etc. It's in a decent condition and I'd like to restore it to its former glory provided that it something worth pursuing (not for monetary value but for its vintage appeal). It's been suggested that it could be an English vintage bike (Flacon or Raleigh) but can't be certain.

P1040321..jpgP1040335..jpgP1040313..jpgP1040318..jpgP1040320..jpgP1040329..jpgP1040338..jpgP1040312..jpgP1040314..jpgP1040328..jpgP1040330..jpgP1040317..jpg

It has an assortment of parts and a quick summary is as below:

Brakes: Campagnolo BREV.INTER
Gear: Shimano ALTUS
Wheel rim: Mavic
Wheel hub: Maillaird
Saddle: Campagnolo
Chain Wheel & Crank: Shimano DURA-ACE
Cottered crank pin: Silver Cotterreles
Pedal: KKT/Kyokuto Pro Vic II
Handle Bar: Italmanubri
Stem: GBFrame: no marking except for lug design (photos below)

Apologies if had gone overboard with the pics; thought that it's best I capture as many features as possible.

Much appreciated.

Thanks,
-n

Last edited by nemoo; 10-29-10 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 10-20-10, 07:51 AM
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few more pics

some more pics added
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Old 10-20-10, 07:57 AM
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I can't tell you what it is, but from what I can see, the paint can look great again. I suggest a complete tear down. Removal of all parts from the frame (with the possible exception of the headset races and fixed BB cup). Search the forum for "oxalic acid". Most of the rust on the bike can be effectively treated if you do your homework and take your time. You'll want to overall all of the bearing systems. This has the potential to be a nice "before & after" bike. Have fun! It certainly has a mish-mash of components!

Other members will likely be able to help you determine the manufacturer and approximate date. Look for serial numbers on the BB or rear dropouts.

You are severely lacking in drive-side photos, sir.
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Old 10-20-10, 07:58 AM
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some pictures of the seat lug cluster(where the seatpost inserts) and the faces of the dropouts (where the wheels clamp/bolt on) and a full shot of the bike from the drive side (the side where the gears are) would be helpful.
**edit** nevermind you put up more pics


My first impression is Japanese, it doesn't look all that british with the full cable run on the top tube, clean looking BB work and the shifter runs with no cable housing. Maybe French?

The adjustable cup on the BottomBracket is out pretty far, you should probably take a look at the BB before you take it for a ride.


Col. I suspect its already be re-painted because of the lack of decals or headbadge of any kind.
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Old 10-20-10, 08:03 AM
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I'm going with Japanese....I feel like I've seen those fastback seatstays before.
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Old 10-20-10, 08:08 AM
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I agree with Zaphod. Japanese from the 80s. It's quite possible that not a single component on that bike is original! Don't worry, though. If you restore it properly it should be a fine running machine.
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Old 10-20-10, 08:09 AM
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big clue here folks, Death Fork.
My thought is it's a Viscount, not the aerospace model but one of the lugged versions.
The mix and match of parts are probably added on, and few if any original with the bike.

Marty
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Old 10-20-10, 08:30 AM
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I saw that fork too, but the other details don't look Lambertian to me. At least, not the same lugs as my Lambert; not the same seat stay treatment; not the same dropouts (mine has forged dropouts without adjusters and without derailleur hanger). And the BB looks conventional, though very hard to see in the picture. On the other hand, there were lots of Viscount/Lambert models, and I've seen only a few.
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Old 10-20-10, 08:50 AM
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well, given the number of other parts the fork could be a replacement too.
What's the threading on the BB? and the BB width?

Marty
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Old 10-20-10, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by lotek View Post
and the BB width?

Marty
Given the way the adjustable cup is sticking out of the non-drive side it would appear somebody swapped in a too-long spindle or possibly used thick walled cups with a spindle made for thin walled ones.

Not saying its impossible, but the thought of someone swapping a Death Fork on to a bike is pretty funny.
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Old 10-20-10, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox View Post
Not saying its impossible, but the thought of someone swapping a Death Fork on to a bike is pretty funny.
+1.

"Hey look what I found in your parts bin! Can I keep it?"
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Old 10-20-10, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox View Post
Not saying its impossible, but the thought of someone swapping a Death Fork on to a bike is pretty funny.
Someday I'll build up a cursed bike complete with death forks, ava death stem, and mountech RD.
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Old 10-20-10, 09:21 AM
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I agree with Zaphod too
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Old 10-20-10, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by lotek View Post
big clue here folks, Death Fork.
Marty
Gotta betray my ignorance: What's a death fork?
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Old 10-20-10, 09:44 AM
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The fork looks like my Cilo. Nothing else is very similar, though. What about the fastback seatlug?
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Old 10-20-10, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by BridgeRider View Post
Gotta betray my ignorance: What's a death fork?
The "Death Fork" was a solid, cast aluminum fork used by Lambert of England (later Viscount). A steel steer tube was pinned to the cast fork, but had a reputation for failure. The fork was recalled by Lambert/Viscount and a steel replacement fork was to be used instead.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/lambert.html
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Old 10-20-10, 10:09 AM
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those are Prugnat lugs (very popular with many Brit bikes including Holdsworth) and the "death fork" appears to have rust, if so it can't be cast aluminum. I say it probably is British, but a few measurements and details are called for: seat post size, BB threading, a good clear shot of the seat cluster...put a magnet on the fork, report back.
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Old 10-20-10, 05:15 PM
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the wealth of info is befuddling my untrained brain ;-) ... but thanks very much for all the clues and feedback.

Unfortunately I won't get access to the bike for another couple of days, so won't be able to add any more info than those posted above.

Thanks again for all your input.

ps// nothing I've read here has told me to forget restoring the bike, so I remain hopeful ;-)
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Old 10-20-10, 05:22 PM
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only thing safety wise to be concerned with is the fork. If its a Viscount Fork you'll wanna get a replacement soon.

aside from that, get greasy and go ride.
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Old 10-20-10, 06:29 PM
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Doesn't look like a Lambert frame at all.

The stem could be original, since it's a GB. I agree that everything else, or nearly, is a replacement.

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Old 10-21-10, 02:38 PM
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The lugs are different, but the seat stays look like my Shogun's fastback stays. Could be a Japanese frame, right?
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Old 10-21-10, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by snarkypup View Post
The lugs are different, but the seat stays look like my Shogun's fastback stays. Could be a Japanese frame, right?
It's possible, but my gut says no. Do the dropouts have a manufacturer's name? A tiny number of Japanese bikes were made with European made dropouts.

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Old 10-21-10, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox View Post
I'm going with Japanese....I feel like I've seen those fastback seatstays before.
Not with those lugs. AFAIK, no Japanese mfr used Prugnat type "I" lugs.

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Old 10-22-10, 02:21 AM
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Many thanks for all the suggestions and apologies for being unable add any further info.

As soon as I get hold of the bike, I should be able to add all those infos requested.
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Old 10-22-10, 08:46 PM
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This bike looks veddy British. It reminds me of two Charles Roberts frames I acquired around 1973-74, and rode for many years. One had Prugnat lugs exactly like yours but with seat stays capped and brazed to the sides of the seat cluster. The bottom bracket had three parallel lozenge-shaped cutouts. The other had lugs that lacked the scalloped effect, no cutouts, but used a fastback seat cluster just like yours. Furthermore, the profile of the bikes is quite similar--somewhat slack angles (mine were 73 parallel), a little less bottom bracket drop (but not as high as a Raleigh Pro) and a little less fork offset than the Italian standard. The tubing was butted Reynolds 531, and the first bike had built up quite light, just under 21 lbs. with Super Champion Arc-En-Ceil wheels and a Brooks Pro saddle.

Many British boutique builders of the '70s were quite non-traditional in that they built the specialized frames with the features their customers specified. My estimation is that yours is a later example, hence the brazed on cable guides and chromed sloping-crown fork.
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