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Help identify this frame

Old 10-29-10, 09:19 PM
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Help identify this frame

I bought this frame in the late 70's to build up as a fixed-gear road bike, then later outfitted it with a Simplex long-arm derailleur and used it touring in Germany and France. It's been sitting unused in my garage or attic since then (switched to mountain bike for commuting). Now I've decided to get it back into usable condition for touring, centuries etc.

When I bought it (and I can't remember who I got it from) I had the local bike shop look at it, and their guess was a "pre-war Peugeot". It was believable at the time because the paint was pretty rough (actually not much worse now than it was then). It's not an easy ID because there are no brand decals - only Reynolds 531 and Nervex decals. I'm pretty sure it's the original paint - a nice blue with gold trim on the lugs. It sure looks a lot like a PX-10 from the 60's or 70's (six-digit S/N starting with 4 would imply 1964?), but no Peugeot decals?

It has a Stronglight headset and bottom bracket, but I'm not sure if I added them or if they came with the frame. Everything else I added myself, so those parts aren't any help in identifying the frame.

Any ideas?
Attached Images
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dropout..jpg (91.3 KB, 209 views)
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frame..jpg (99.1 KB, 164 views)
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serialno..jpg (41.4 KB, 91 views)
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bb..jpg (74.8 KB, 77 views)
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decal2..jpg (83.9 KB, 74 views)
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decals..jpg (60.4 KB, 95 views)
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fork..jpg (77.3 KB, 90 views)
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nervex..jpg (47.9 KB, 98 views)
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Old 10-29-10, 09:32 PM
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I'm not exactly sure about the frame, but I love your username...

Personally, if I were to take a guess on the frame, I'd say it's definitely French because of the 531 decal. Past that, I have absolutely no idea.
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Old 10-29-10, 11:58 PM
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Difficult to tell, but I would concur with your assessment of 1960 to 1970 range. This is based on the French writing on the Reynolds 531 decal, the non use of cable braze ons, and the rear dropout.
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Old 10-30-10, 01:01 AM
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Nervex is a French company that made lugs and bottom brackets, although they were used a lot internationally.
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Old 10-30-10, 07:10 AM
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An old Gitane? Just going by the seat stay caps, and Gitane used that awful foil stuff for downtube and seat tube graphics, that would have been easy to remove. Obviously French, though, and high quality. Those are beautiful Simplex rear dropouts; I haven't seen any like that. before.
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Old 10-30-10, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sillygolem
Nervex is a French company that made lugs and bottom brackets, although they were used a lot internationally.
thanks for your introduce
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Old 10-30-10, 10:32 AM
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I'll say a late 60's Peugeot PX10.
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Old 10-30-10, 12:55 PM
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I agree with "peugeot", but miami jim should know for sure. The cut of the seat stay would be a good clue, but I can't make it out.
I've seen those Simplex DOs on other makes (including Gitane) but very unusual for a Gitane to use all that Nervex stuff and have no scallops on the stay ends.
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Old 10-30-10, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DRietz
... I'd say it's definitely French because of the 531 decal...
Or Swiss or Belgian or Spanish.
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Old 10-30-10, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
Or Swiss or Belgian or Spanish.
Circa 1970 the French were still using French threading in the BB. If both BB cups are RH threaded, we can rule out Swiss.
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Old 10-30-10, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by retyred
I'll say a late 60's Peugeot PX10.
I'll second that. The confluence Nervex lugs, Simplex dropouts, chrome fork tips, metallic blue paint, and the profile all point to that.
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Old 10-30-10, 07:15 PM
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Thanks for all the feedback! I checked a few things based on suggestions:
Both BB cups are RH thread.
Attached picture of seat stay ends. Also noticed an "F" on the left side of that lug, and what looks like "12 degrees" (with a degree sign, not "degree" spelled out) on the right side.
One other interesting thing I just found, pictured: what looks like hand-stamped, before painting, either "BE" or "RE", on the front of the head tube where a badge would normally be.
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Old 10-30-10, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
Or Swiss or Belgian or Spanish.
I was making a blatantly obvious statement based on my limited knowledge in order to try and contribute to the thread in a helpful way. I was kind of right-ish.
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Old 10-31-10, 11:21 AM
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those seat stay caps are very "peugeot", and the fact that the stays are single-taper may help to determine the era (by somebody who knows more than I do). The various stampings mean nada to me, but the BB threading is FR (not any surprise, there).
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Old 10-31-10, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by KillerBeagle
Thanks for all the feedback! I checked a few things based on suggestions:
Both BB cups are RH thread.
Attached picture of seat stay ends. Also noticed an "F" on the left side of that lug, and what looks like "12 degrees" (with a degree sign, not "degree" spelled out) on the right side.
One other interesting thing I just found, pictured: what looks like hand-stamped, before painting, either "BE" or "RE", on the front of the head tube where a badge would normally be.
Peugeot PX10. Almost undoubtedly. All the Gitane TdF's and Supercorsas that I've seen used much thinner, cheaper fade-prone paint, and cut-and-squash seatstay ends. This looks much too nice for one of those.

SP
Bend, OR
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Old 10-31-10, 04:54 PM
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I still find several things odd. It's amazing how the notoriously fragile Reynolds decals survived when all the rest disappeared. All the PX10 I've seen have had contrasting head lugs, either yellow or black. I've never seen that particular crown on a Peugeot.
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Old 10-31-10, 07:12 PM
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They did use that crown on some PX-10s, but this example (1969) is painted, not chromed:
https://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/...geViewsIndex=1
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Old 10-31-10, 07:33 PM
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Maybe a Nancia? (French)

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Old 10-31-10, 08:10 PM
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Here is a link to a (1963) PX10 on CL in the Fresno area: https://fresno.craigslist.org/bik/2035470228.html

if you check out the picts on the Flicker album you find this pic of the head tube with a "BE" or "RE" stamping similar to that on the OP's pict of the headtube:




on edit: As it turns out, BF member brian3069 posted the above PX10 in the C&V valuation thread. Don't know if he's selling or buying.

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Old 10-31-10, 08:17 PM
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Wow, great find! I noticed also that there are 2 double red bands from decals in similar seat tube spots that my frame has 2 white bands that feel integral with the paint, although they look further apart than mine. I don't know if there was white primer underneath and the blue paint got pulled off, or if they are remnants of decals. There is no noticeable edge when scraping with a fingernail.
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Old 11-02-10, 09:17 PM
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At first glance I'd say its NOT a PX10. The seat stay caps look off and the NERVEX decal would be below the Reynolds decal.

Inoxadable>Nervex>Reynolds
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Old 11-03-10, 08:15 AM
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I'm going to have to work on the assumption that the decals are not in their original locations, or that this was a custom build, since there are no corporate markings of any kind.
What I find unusual is the B.E. or R.E. on the head tube, so I'll have to do some more digging. Unfortunately that's not a google-searchable thing. Never having seen mention of that before, and now seeing it on a (advertised as) PX-10 that's for sale, makes me hopeful that this is a PX-10 after all.
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Old 11-04-10, 04:19 PM
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A few pics of known early 60's PX10 detail for reveiw. Note the differences in seat and chain stay taper as they join the dropout. Peugeot is notoriously known for slight differences but I have a few other pics of PX10's with stay joints that are more like my pic versus the OP's.



.
.
.

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Old 11-04-10, 04:30 PM
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Thank you sir, that will help my unpracticed eye to understand. I see what you mean about the seat stay caps; I'm still not sure I see the difference at the dropouts, but I need to put the pictures side-by-side and that should help.

By the way, please don't take all these questions as doubting your word. I seem to have some irrational desire to be sure this is a PX-10, hoping against hope; perhaps because I believed it to be true for so many years.

P.S. I might have an old Cycles Peugeot poster from the 70's somewhere; if I find it, would you like some images for your website?

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Old 11-05-10, 05:24 PM
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Very nice item!

For me, too, PX10 comes closest (but not quite...).
Especially when you look at this beauty:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...0-is&highlight
Seems to have a fully chromed fork crown as well but of slightly different type (flat top etc.).

On both my early 60s PX10s you also find an "F" and "72" (seat-tube angle - "12" on your frame almost certainly is "72") stamped into the seat-tube/top-tube lug.
On the one from 1963 with better paint (see link below: first pic) "F" is stamped into the left side of the lug, the "72" into the right. Bare frame (second pic and rest / exact vintage unknown) vice versa.
https://forum.tour-magazin.de/showpos...8&postcount=86

The length of the seat-stay caps - as shown by miamijim in #23 - is 35mm on both.

Bare frame is not only lacking much of its paint but the "Peugeot" headtube badge as well - yet no letters visible on the front where the badge is missing (perhaps paint still too thick).

The height of the seat-tube decal you are asking for in your second thread is about 18 cm =7.09" on the first (the very bike you take as an example -> https://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...5&d=1288882657). 17 cm = 6.7" for the bare frame with slightly different three-row-checkerboards.
Anyway, your blue frame presumably didn't sport checkerboard decals.

Last edited by qd-s; 11-05-10 at 05:30 PM.
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