Is this BB any good?
 

I came across a BB I've never seen before. When I started stripping my latest acquisition (a 1983 Shogun 1500 tourer) I assumed it was going to have a cup and cone BB, but instead it has a sealed cartridge type TANGE unit. Did they make these way back when? I thought cartridge type BBs came out in the late 80s/early 90s. Or is it more likely that the original had been replaced at some point? It seems like a nice unit, ultra light. the shell and "cups" are all aluminum alloy. Strangely, there's no fixed cup. Both sides have lockrings. I tried googling the model, but came up empty.

worth keeping? or replace? it does spin as smoothly as a new one.

weird cup has a tool pattern that i've never seen:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1317/...d3a6cfcf6f.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1059/...bc491cbe29.jpg

is this a JIS taper or ISO?
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1319/...eae7fc0e91.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1173/...f7d7e53119.jpg

do modern sealed cartidge BBs look like this? the cartridges just pop out.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/...dbc1df96c7.jpg

I've got a similar unit with no fixed cups - a lockring on each side. It's not Tange, but Suntour Superbe. The construction is almost identical, except for the lettering and the spline on the cups.

Printed on the unit are the words "adjustable chainline" - I believe you can adjust the position of the spindle a few mm left or right with the cups.

Can post some pictures if you'd like.

I have a Suntour one too and never had a bit of trouble with it.

brilliant. makes perfect sense!

If it works, why change it? But I'm really a ball bearing, grease and cup kinda guy.

It looks amazing. If you don't want it, let me know.

Keep it. It's nice.

Anton,

Phil Wood BBs are built the same way, with two removable cups. Most lower cost cartridge BBs have one fixed cup on the drive side and the removable one on the non drive side.

The cool thing about Phil Wood BBs is that if you want to move the BB cartridge from an English threaded to an Italian threaded BB shell, just buy new cups.

that is cool. i didn't know that about phil wood BBs. i've never worked with anything by phil wood. then again, phil wood parts are too rich for my blood!

honestly, how much would it cost to make the fixed cup adjustable on lower end units? i can see how that would be especially useful when upgrading older bikes from asymmetric spindle and cup setups and needing to maintain the chainline.

one question though: how much torque should be applied to the cups? since they don't work on the same principle as true cups and don't actually tension the bearings (it appears that they just keep the cartridges pressed tight against the aluminum cartridge shell), i have no idea how tight to make them. for what it's worth, both lockrings loosened very easily, and the cups unthreaded entirely by hand.

I have an Edco Competition that is constructed similarly, but the tapers are ISO and the threads are French. It's nice to have an adjustable chainline.

Tighten the lockrings enough to keep them from coming loose. No more, no less.

my question was of the cups themselves, not the lockrings, since it's the cups that create compression on the aluminum shell between the cartridge bearing outer races (see last pic). also, what tool fits that cross pattern?

Anton, that is the exact, I mean exact, same bike as the one I rode on the Lake Sunapee ride a few weeks ago. The ride was very smooth on those bumpy roads. If you would, please put up a full shot so I can see if mine is spec'd the same as yours. Is it a 56? and do you know if it was built by Shogun or one of the other Japanese makers? I pulled out the BB on mine... I think because it was crunchy. Now I can't remember if I tossed it or not. I know I kept those alloy lockrings. I'll try to remember to post a photo of mine tonight.

it is identical to the bike you rode! same color scheme, as well. but, mine's a 63cm. and yes, i believe you were offering for trade/sale the same early deore XT cantilevers and derailleurs that came on my bike. does yours have the suzue sealed bearing hubs as well? i plan to have a frame builder do some modifications to it and powder coat it, then i'm going to build it up as a 650B conversion. i don't have a full shot of the bike, but i do think it's the same bike! i'll post some tonight.

With low end BB's I think its more an issue of fixing the chainline in place for a specfic crank more than anything else. In regards to tightening the cups....throw it all together and push on the psindle from left to right. Tighten the cups until left to right movement goes away. Keep in mind that tightening the lock rings will loosen the adjustment.

One of the Park spanner tools may work.....its either the yellow or blue but they only work on relatively loose cups. If your dealing with tight or siezed cups they dont work well, trust me.

thanks. yeah, i figured the lockrings will loosen the adjustment... no differently than a traditional spindle and cup setup.

EDCO also offered a threadless cartridge bottom bracket with eccentric cups to hold it in place:
http://www.velobase.com/CompImages/B...086E90B78.jpeg

Yes on the hubs. This bike is a real sleeper! The ride is dreamy. (My gel saddle probably plays a part, but the fork is buttery, for sure) It has a very high level parts spec but you wouldn't know it from the (lack of) reputation the bike has. Totally sealed hubs, 36/40 spoke wheels, "deer head" Deore brakes and mechs, etc.
Re: it being a touring bike, the only fault I can find is the fact that it has only 2 bottle mounts and the under-downtube mount really crowds the front tire. A tiny section of my water bottle top got worn off on that 35-mile ride. :) Also to totally do it, low-rider mounts on the fork would be needed. Still, no complaints. It is a great light tourer. I was going to flip mine, but after I spent some time on it, it earned a permanent spot in my fleet.

agreed on all points. my slightly newer (1984) shogun 2000 appears to be the same bike as the 1500, with the exception of having come with a nicer freewheel (shimano 600), nicer brake levers (also 600), nitto technomic stem, the third set of bottle cage mounts, and the fork low-rider mounts. it also had a spindle and cup BB, not a sealed bearing one, and a takagi crankset instead of the sakae CX. perhaps those differences distinguished them in the lineup. frame material (tange #2 DB), geometry, and dropouts are identical.

i plan to have a local frame builder add a third set of bottle mounts, as well as lower the canti bosses for 650B wheels.

if i were you and keeping it in the fleet, i'd put those nicer comps back on it.