Velo Orange sells the Nexus 8 in a complete 650B-sized wheel and includes the shifters and cable for $210. That seems like a really great price to me. Too bad it's the wrong rim size for my application.

BG, is yours the regular or the special "red band" version of the Nexus?

What's the hang up many have with twist grip shifters. My mountain bike has a twist grip shifter and it is just fine. Of course, I don't use it off road, so maybe that's why I don't understand the issue - I may have not yet experienced whatever the problem is.

Which one are you talking about? (see #43)

Mostly I hate the way twist shifters look (they are all plasticy, yuck), but the way they feel while shifting is a close second. A thumb shifter is satisfying to shift and nice looking.

Do these IGH require a special shifter or would a friction shifter do the job? The bike currently has two, nice, metallic thumb shifters but they are not "indexed" for these hubs.

IGHs require a specifically indexed shifter. Basically, they are nested, planetary gear sets. Like an automotive manual transmission, there isn't a safe in-between.

That is a good analogy, but I would like to point out that traditional automotive manual transmissions do not use planetary gear architecture, they use a mainshaft and countershaft design. Traditional automotive automatic transmissions actually use planetary gearsets very similar to a bicycle IGH. I believe the planetary configuration has the advantage that the physical shifting mechanism can be much simpler to implement via a cable or hydraulics. The recent trend for automotive automatic transmissions, however, has been to automate the mainshaft & countershaft design. Why? Two reasons, 1), because this design is inherenly lighter and more compact for the same combination of range, # of ratios, and torque capacity than a planetary design, and 2), because it has inherenty lower frictional losses than a planetary design (for a mainshaft/countershaft design in any non 1:1 forward gear, there are a maximum of two pairs of gears in mesh. I believe the planetary automatics also have appreciable windage losses from the bands and clutchpacks that are not engaged in a given gear).

I went to a bike shop after work tonight. They had lots of cool bikes but had only 3 speed IGH. All the wheel sets they had were for derailleur equipped bikes.

No joy. :(

Maybe I can get to REI tomorrow.

its an S-RF5 (W)

The award winning Mercedes AMG 7-speed auto is a planetary design, as is the new Lexus 8-speed and ZF 8-speed. Somehow I don't see any of these cats clinging to old, outdated technology.

You can try posting your question to the IGH yahoo group, they seem really knowledgeable.

Here's the address: IGH

Pssst....... Alfine 11 release rumors are stirring......
The Harris website is now open to pre-orders (at a crazy price - $600+) with anticipated availability of Nov 12. Others have reported seeing pre-orders in the $450 range elsewhere.

That $450 price doesn't surprise me that much but $600 - ouch! A $300 upper for 3 extra gears.

Does the $600 include the shifter, cable and small parts kit?

If I wait for the Alfine 11 to come out, I bet I can get a really good price on the Nexus 8 or even the Alfine 8 or I can plop down the extra cash for the Alfine 11.

I was going to reuse the rear rim that came with the bike so I will still have a matched set. I'd just delace it and relace it using the new hub & spokes. The klinker is, what spoke length do I need.

wait until the Alfine 11's have been out for a month or three and perhaps people will start dumping their old Alfine 8's on eBay.

you guys will probably think i'm crazy (or stupid) but I was thinking about running a drop bar modern modern club racer type setup on a vintage frame with a alfine IGH shifted by one of these:

http://i.ebayimg.com/05/%21B61l%295%...7E%7E-1_12.JPG

unfortunately the shifters alone are in the 2-$300 range so I'm not exactly sure if this will be happening are not.

Not crazy at all!
My commuter is a drop bar steel frame - more cx style than club racer, but the Alfine is really nice in my rig - it rides very "sporty" and I love how it feels.
I opted for the J-Tek bar end (which I can highly recommend) over the STI brifter.

I have felt that temptation as well, and have resisted. If anything, I'll go for the J-Tek bar end shifter. At present I am still running my Nexus-8 with its stock grip shifter, which I have mounted on the straight part at the top of a drop bar. To do this, I had to cut the bar in two (on the right side, near the center ferrule) and fit an extension inside it, which is held in place with set screws. I used a narrow bar that I didn't have any other use for, so in the process turned a 38 cm bar into a 46cm bar (that's an improvement!) but the set screws are an imperfect solution. They have worked their way loose once before, and riding it yesterday I noticed the bar was squeaking. That's never a good sign. I will tighten them again.

There are several sites with spoke length calculators http://lenni.info/edd/ being one with a pretty complete array of pre-specified rims and hubs. The DT Swiss site or others (UBI) will give you the option to manually plug in the data if your hub/rim do not show in the linked site.
You'll need the following data:
Rim ERD (diameter of rim measured from screwdriver slot of nipple to same spot on the other side of the rim) - this info should be available or your LBS can help measure it.
Hub Flange Diameter - info should be available in hub manufaturer tech data or on spoke calc site)
Hub flange distance from center (right and left) - same source as above
Spoke cross pattern
Some of the sites additionally ask for spoke hole diameter and nipple length, but the default values are typical and should return a reliable answer. Your LBS should be able to help you validate your calcs if you are unsure.

You won't be disappointed with the J-Tek. Quality is top notch, an it is a joy to operate. The only thing that I'd recommend is one of these http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=176806

to help with fine tuning the indexing during initial setup.

Perhaps the thing to do is to epoxy bond the inner tube into the outer tube (permanently). The set screws are just not going to work - the bars get flexed to much.

The thing is, the hubs and the rims are Specialized proprietary designs. For instance, the hubs have no brand marking on them at all. The rims are marked "SATURAE X28 26 X 1.50". Still, I'll check out the sites you mention.

I was thinking I'd measure the existing spoke size. Then adjust (reduce) that length based upon the measured difference in diameter of the hole patterns on the new and old hubs. Does that sound like it will work?

I have a good quality caliper and scale at home to make accurate measurements on the hubs and spokes. The scale (ruler) is graduated in 0.01" (0.25 mm) increments and is more than long enough to measure a spoke. The caliper is graduated in 0.001" increments for measuring the hole diameter on the hubs.

Amazing!

that Edd site had the rim and the Alfine hub in their database. It says I need a 252 mm spoke for the Alfine 8 hub.

<gasp!>

The J-tek shifters costs $80 each ($160 for a pair).

Yeah, you are probably right about that. I just don't like the word "permanently" very much! Also, It's surprisingly difficult to get much epoxy between two metal tubes; it moves around as you push them together, and you end up not knowing where it is in there. Still... probably worth a try.

But you don't need a pair of shifters for an IGH; one is enough.

Yep, no calipers or EDD thermometer gauge necessary ;-)
An old trick for EDD is to thread two spokes at opposite sides of the rim, hook the elbows in the center of the wheel, and add enough tension to hold the assembly. Measure the distance to the end of each nipple, then add 2x the length of the nipple length to the screw slot.