snarkypup

So... let's say I'm out riding about. I get a flat tire. I have a spare tube, levers, and I have a CO2 pump and cartridge. Why would I need a patch kit? When would one patch? Should I have one?

I tried researching this online, and all I'm coming up with is that patches are for holes in tubes. I assume this is a way to avoid throwing out the tube for a bit, or to ride home without carrying a spare tube, right? But I have a bag for this (or I will have), so I don't mind the tube carrying thing.

Do I have this right? I can change a flat now, no problem. Just curious as to whether I need to somehow learn to do patching too, and carry one of those nifty little kits everywhere.

canyoneagle

The patches are to repair a hole in the tube.
I carry a patch kit as well as a tube, and tend to install the new tube while out on a ride. Once home, I inflate the flat tube and look for the leak, then I repair it in the comfort of my home.

The kit is nice to have in case a second flat is encountered, or if the hole on the first flat is really easy to spot.

Peter_B

You can use a patch for your second flat tire on your ride. A patch doesn't weigh much and it is insurance. I have had two flats on a ride... bad luck can happen.

3speed

Yeah, I personally see a patch as a repair to do at home, simply as a means of not just tossing the tube in a land fill. A way of getting a little more use out of something in our throw away society. I know it's not much, but maybe it does some good.

I've never gotten more than one flat, going through a construction area, and I live in a Major bike city, so if by chance I do get two flats in a ride then I'll walk it a couple miles to a bike shop.

mkeller234

Same with me. I carry both a spare tube and a patch kit, if you get a major blow-out the patch kit won't do any good. I carry my spare tube folded in a zip-lock bag with a little baby powder.

sillygolem

In my experience if you have slimed tubes they can seal up a single puncture at a time, but not a pinch flat. Between having a couple patches and the slime I don't really need to carry a tube. The slimed tubes are heavier, but it's worth it if I can just pump a little air in to fix most flats.

randyjawa 

The day will come when you have two flats. Believe it! And, if you don't have some way to compress air, you will still have a flat. If you don't have a second spare inner tube or a patch kit, you will still have a flat. However...

You can always fix a flat tire without a spare inner tube, or patch kit, or pump.

I flatted out back in the hills of Jamaica, a few years ago. I was about twenty miles into the hills and poof. No problem. I had a spare, and a patch kit and a small hand pump. Sadly, my grandson had taken the pump apart and lost the rubber seal. So, I was stuck. I was screwed and facing a long walk home, under the hot sun.

As I sat there, pondering the situation that I had allowed myself to get into, a fellow came out of his yard, crossed the road (at least parts of it looked like a road) and asked me what was wrong.

Upon explaining the situation, he told me to stuff the tire with grass, leaves or anything that I could fit inside the tire. I did. It worked. I rode home, ever so slowly, but I made it and a darn site quicker than I would have walking.

That repair was to my mountain bike, which I keep in Jamaica. How would this work on an old road bike? Hope I never have to find out but if I do, at least I have something to try.

Hope this is a help.

ColonelJLloyd 

Tubes are cheap. I've said it before. You can hand me a patch kit wrapped in a $2 bill and I still ain't patchin' no tubes. I find interesting uses for used inner tubes. If I'm going on a really long ride, I'll carry two tubes. If I were to have two flats on a normal ride, I'll take it as a sign and either catch the bus or use my cell phone to get a ride. I use tires with Kevlar belts. I'm not interested in fixing flats on the side of the road when I could be riding.

RobbieTunes

I carry a couple Scab patches in my seat bag, mainly to hold a dollar bill in place inside the tire if I cut it.

I wouldn't generally patch a tube on the road, and I doubt it would hold, anyway.

I patch tubes all the time, but not mine and not 700c, in general.
Kids' bikes, cruisers, big ole fat tubes, sure.

snarkypup

So this makes more sense to me now. On short rides, I have one tube and the CO2 pump, etc. I could change a tire, without it being a big deal. On longer rides, when I finally feel good enough to take one, I assume I would bring two tubes, no big deal.

But here's the next part of this question, to those of you who patch the tubes at home: is it worth it? Do you feel safe riding on a patched tube? How long does one last? I tend to agree with Lloyd on this one, I think: tubes are cheap, and I would probably find another use for one, rather than keep it and ride on it. But if patching it made it work for a reasonable period of time, I might reconsider that.

nlerner

I carry two spare tubes and a patch kit for longer rides as I've too frequently had the experience of three flats on a ride. Usually that meant just bad luck or my rim tape had shifted a bit, but it's made me take precautions.

Neal

rhm

I have terrible luck with flat tires. I try to always carry an extra tube and two patch kits. One patch kit is the current "on deck" one that I will use until it's used up; the second is unopened and won't be opened until the first one is used up.

Why patch? Lots of reasons, but I'll just give a few....

Because tubes last much longer in a tire than they do in a took bag. Your brand new tube, never installed, may have developed a leak by the valve during the three months since you put it in your took bag. It may have come from the factory with a leak by the valve; you'll never know.

Because patching is a skill that you need to keep up. It is much easier to patch a fresh hole than to redo a patch that failed.

Because no matter how many flats you already got today, your odd of getting another one are the same as they were before. Be prepared.

Because once you develop good technique, patching is soooo much easier than replacing the tube. You don't even have to take the wheel off the bike.

Because patching is sooo much cheaper... a tube costs twice what a patch kit costs, and the patch kit can repair five or ten holes.

To answer your question, a properly glued-on patch should last as long as the butyl it's glued to. I can usually keep using a tube until it develops a hole near the valve; then it has to be replaced. My wife rides a mid-60's Raleigh on which I've replaced the tires, but the Dunlop Airseal innertubes, which have been patched, are still original equipment.

randyjawa 

Sometimes, this in next to impossible to do. And, sometimes, two flats, one after the other, can be caused by the same thing. Or, you could pinch tube #2 when installing it. And, a patch kit takes up very little room. For my money, I will carry the patch kit.

I have patched tubes, on a ride, and they held just fine, until I got home, and then some.

I feel that it is, indeed, worth patching a tube. And that goes for my 700c tubes, also. However, more than two patches, and I scrap the tube. Is patching worth it? Doing so saves me money and, it saves Mother Earth from having to deal with one more used inner tube, a bit sooner than is necessary. So, for me and Mother Earth, it is worth it. That is not to say that anyone else would agree.

A patched tube has no more reason to fail catastrophically, than does a new inner tube. True, the patch might fail and leak air, but so what? That does not constitute any greater safety hazard, in my mind. So, yes, I feel just as safe riding a patched inner tube as I do riding a new inner tube.

How long do patches last? I get a lot of vintage bicycles, each year, and work on, literally, hundreds of wheels. As often as not, an old patched inner tube will hold air just as well as a brand new one. And some of them have done so for many years. Were I a bit wiser, I would be saving all that clean unpolluted air and sell it:-) So, based on that, I guess that they will last just fine.

All of my comments, above, contain an environmental concern, as well as those associated with dollars, cents and performance. I don't like to wast money, or anything for that matter. And, I do want to be part of the movement, to stop polluting Mother Earth, with the hopes that she can repair herself.

due ruote 

+1 I have a strong preference for the old-fashioned kits with glue, btw. The self-stick patches don't hold for me, at least not long enough to be a permanent fix. I mentioned this to a kid at the LBS recently. He looked at me quizzically and stated that getting you home is all you'd ever want a patch to do, at which point you'd replace the tube. Obviously there's a difference of opinion on this, but I ride on patched tubes all the time and rarely get flats. I don't believe I've ever had a flat from a glued patch failing.

OP, as long as we're discussing contingency plans for multiple flats - how many CO2 cartridges do you carry?

ColonelJLloyd 

All of this patch/don't patch debate means very little if you don't often get flats. I ride over lots of broken glass that is unavoidable and, of course, any tire can flat. That said, I take care when installing my tubes and tires and have yet to get a flat with a Kevlar lined tire. I use Velox rim strips that are sufficiently wide. I have never used my CO2 pump. I should, just to test its function, but I haven't.

I suspect that having written the above statement, I will get a flat this evening.

I respect the points in favor of patch kits listed above. I'm a reasonable guy. What patch kit do those that use them recommend?

atmdad

Just my 2 cents, I highly recommend a small frame pump and not rely entirely on the C02, although I usually carry both.

I've heard somewhere that it is relatively easy to misuse the C02 and accidentally discharge the entire thing and only get about 15 psi in your tube...

due ruote 

The ones I get at the LBS look like this. Park makes a similar one. The key IMHO is get one with glue.

BigPolishJimmy

I carry a spare tube, a patch kit & a frame pump. I ride in rural areas, there is no bus, there is no bike shop, and sometimes no cell reception. You flat, you fix, or you walk. I also believe in not being wasteful. As mentioned, the self-stick patches don't hold for long-term, but they are convenient for getting you back. I've had to stop and pump the tire back up as the self-stick was doing a slow leak, but it was much better than miles of walking.

gna

If you're riding a Raleigh 3-speed and your rear tire goes flat, it's SO much easier to patch the tube with the wheel installed, rather than have to remove the wheel and replace the tube.

snarkypup

All this is quite interesting. I've never had a flat while riding, and have only replaced tubes because the valve area leaked, or because they were so old as to be dangerous, or because I was learning to change a tire. This is with my vast experience with bikes <ehem>. I haven't had to test my CO2 pump, though I guess, like Lloyd, I should. The cartridges are relatively cheap, in terms of trying one out. I have to put new tires and tubes on my Shogun, so that would be a good time to give it a go.

Right now, I'm doing relatively short, pleasure rides to get back in shape and go easy on my wacky spine. I take the Panasonic out for 3-5 miles at a time, so walking home is a possiblity, though it wouldn't be fun, as I'm tackling some large hills. I take the Sports out on longer rides, and to be honest, I think if it got a flat, I'd lock it up and call my boyfriend to come get me with the bike rack. Wrenching off the Sports' back wheel is not my idea of fun, especially as I've never actually done it. But it ain't quick release, I know that much.

So right now, I'm carrying a spare tube and the CO2 pump only on the Panasonic. I have one cartridge, which is supposed to fill two tires to 80psi each, or enough to get me home. Don't know how true that is. I'll have to find out on the Shogun. I could do that this weekend, and report back. If I were going to ride it any further, I'd want to carry two tubes and another cartridge, depending on how easy I found the cartridges to use.

I have a frame pump on the Sports, and I will eventually have to get a tube for it, but I don't really want to carry around an adjustable wrench (haven't found one of those mythical Raleigh-sized spanners yet, but I haven't really looked, either). It has the Schwalbe Delta Cruisers, and I haven't had any flats yet, even on the relatively long 10-12 mile rides. Of course, I'm not riding that bad boy on the street through broken glass, either. It's a good paved trail bike, and that's how it's mostly used. The hills around my neighborhood are too much for the Sports.

due ruote 

Finding the hole can't be all that easy though, or is there a secret trick?

gna

Sounds familiar...
Those are good tires--I believe they have some kevlar protection.

I've been lucky. One time it was clear where the hole was (piece of wire), another time I pumped up the tire and I could feel air through a tiny hole. Simple matter to pry off the tire in that area, find the hole, patch, pump it back up.

randyjawa 

With the tube out of the tire, I pressurize the inner tube. Yes, the air will leak out. If it leaks fast, your ears and eyes will be your friends. It it leaks slowly, your lips become your best buddies.

With the inner tube pressurized, lick your lips and then hold the inner tube really close to them. While rotating the tube forward and back with your fingers, and the tube really close to your lips, work your way around the inner tube until your lips feel cool. Your lips are very sensitive and will have a much better chance of feeling the air escaping from the inner tube.

That's how I do it on the road, or in the work shop. Hope this is a help.

snarkypup

Fascinating, but I keep picturing myself out on the trail with the Sports, having NOT wrenched off the rear wheel, bent over the bike trying to put my lips on the rear tube while the wheel remains on the bike. I'm sure some of the spandex army who commute on that trail would give me some very odd looks (not that they don't already).

I definitely think this will be worth learning on the Panasonic, and later for the Shogun, but the Sports will just have to tough it out until I get it home. I have taken the front wheel off with an adjustable wrench, and it was doable. I should look at the back wheel sometime and try that. I need to practice taking the rear wheel off the Panasonic and the Shogun, too, as I haven't had to do it much and it's a bit trickier to remember to shift down to the smallest gear, etc. The Panasonic has a nice little peg to hang the chain on, though .

I've been reading through the 1973 Raleigh thread, and admiring the OP, who is essentially rebuilding his bike on his own for the first time. I'm intimidated by the Sports' rear tire!

ColonelJLloyd 

I recently restored my 1973 Sports. Don't be scared. They are simple machines.