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Mysterious Drivetrain and BB Problem in Bianchi Nuovo Racing

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Mysterious Drivetrain and BB Problem in Bianchi Nuovo Racing

Old 12-09-10, 12:59 AM
  #1  
Veloria
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Mysterious Drivetrain and BB Problem in Bianchi Nuovo Racing

All righty. So I picked up a Bianchi Nuovo Racing with all original components. The frame is in great condition and cosmetically the bike looks pretty good overall - which makes its multitude of mechanical problems all the more baffling. Particularly, the drivetrain issues are over my head. See what you think:

. When I turn the cranks ("Bianchi" Ofmega crankset), there is an "indexing" feeling in (I think) the bottom bracket. By this I mean that the cranks do not turn smoothly and continuously, but "step by step".

. The front and rear derailleurs (Campagnolo Nuovo Record) simply do not work, despite a lack of any apparent damage or rust. The rear derailleur sort of works to a point, but not sufficiently to bring the chain over successfully. The front derailleur moves only barely. The cables and (Campagnolo) shifters seem fine.

Am I missing something simple here? When components behave this way, there is usually something visibly wrong - but not in this case. Thanks in advance.

Last edited by Veloria; 12-09-10 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 12-09-10, 01:11 AM
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I bet the "indexing feel" is being caused by the chain. Rotate the cranks and watch the chain as it moves on and off the freewheel and chain ring teeth. It would not hurt to check the bottom bracket, but I am betting on the chain.

Before someone comes in and says "Campagnolo derailleurs are bad", let me say that the NR derailleurs on my Raleigh shift insanely smooth. They haven't always shifted so well, I replaced the freewheel to a Suntour model and bought a Sram pc850 chain. I am not suggesting that those are the problems, only showing that you can expect very smooth shifts from that component group.
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Old 12-09-10, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mkeller234 View Post
I bet the "indexing feel" is being caused by the chain. Rotate the cranks and watch the chain as it moves on and off the freewheel and chain ring teeth. It would not hurt to check the bottom bracket, but I am betting on the chain.
Sadly, no. That is what I thought at first, but when I removed the chain and turned the cranks on their own, the problem remained.
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Old 12-09-10, 01:20 AM
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If the indexing symptom is still there with the chain removed, pitted races and/or spindle in the bottom bracket are the most likely culprit - or if you're lucky, the BB was simply installed a little too tightly. Backing off a little bit on the adjustable cup or complete removal of the cup on either side should tell the story.

On the derailleur front: what you describe as both derailleurs not moving very much relative to the shift lever movement - might just be that the cables are stretched and need to be replaced or at the very least tensioned back up again. Undo both cable anchor bolts, pull the cable taut and tighten back down and then see if you get more movement. If the answer is yes, then go on to fine-tune.

However, you will want to sort out the BB/crank issue before messing with the derailleur final tune/adjustment.

Good luck, and let us know how it's going.

DD
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Old 12-09-10, 01:37 AM
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Thanks, I will mess around with the BB and then with the cables. I would love to retain the original drivetrain, so hopefully that will be possible.
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Old 12-09-10, 01:47 AM
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Veloria, I just read your recent blog post. I am sorry to move a bit off subject but I wanted to weigh in on stand over height.

In my own experience how much room it does not matter, in fact I have zero stand over clearance on all of the frames that fit me. The only frame that I could stand over with clearance was 56cm and I had the stem and seat post fully extended to ride it. I sold that bike because I felt significant neck pain after every ride, I blame that on fit.

YMMV of course, fit is very personal.
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Old 12-09-10, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Veloria View Post
Sadly, no. That is what I thought at first, but when I removed the chain and turned the cranks on their own, the problem remained.
Hmm, bummer. In that case, I suppose you are right to suspect the bottom bracket.
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Old 12-09-10, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mkeller234 View Post
Veloria, I just read your recent blog post. I am sorry to move a bit off subject but I wanted to weigh in on stand over height.

In my own experience how much room it does not matter, in fact I have zero stand over clearance on all of the frames that fit me. The only frame that I could stand over with clearance was 56cm and I had the stem and seat post fully extended to ride it. I sold that bike because I felt significant neck pain after every ride, I blame that on fit.

YMMV of course, fit is very personal.
Thanks for that feedback. My husband is also fine with as little top tube clearance as possible. I guess what I don't understand, is how do you people not accidentally bruise your "inseams"... But that is a rhetorical question I guess, and way off topic : )
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Old 12-09-10, 02:35 AM
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+1 on DD's suggestion it's an over tightened BB. Another cause could be the bearing cages were installed backwards.
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Old 12-09-10, 05:18 AM
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One, or a combination of three things could be contributing to your BB problem.

Hopefully, the grease is just really dirty and hardened. This will cause a rough feel to the bottom bracket. By the way, do all of these tests with the cranks removed. To fix the dirty/dried grease problem is as simple as rebuilding the bottom bracket. And/or...

The bearing paths on the races or on the balls might be pitted. The fix is simple - replace the unit. And/or...

The bearing might have been installed too tight. A ball bearing, is best fitted with zero clearance and absolutely no pre-load! This is a really difficult target to feel and that is all you will be able to do it feel the clearance. And a teeny weeny bit of clearance is WAYYYYY better that a weeny teeny bit of pre-load.

Actually, there is a fourth possibility. An alien creature might have taken up residence in your BB housing and that little fella, or fellette, might be trying to stop the spindle from turning smoothly;-)


Hope this is a help.
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Old 12-09-10, 05:38 AM
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Check the limit screws on both derailleurs, also check that the frame and derailleur hanger are straight. All those can affect shifting performance.
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Old 12-09-10, 08:43 AM
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OK guys I am going to fess up *blushing* I am partly to blame for Veloria's troubles. I stumbled across this Bianchi on CL and brought it to her attention. from the pics it was a nice looking bike and has a great story to go with it.

I am hoping that most of the troubles are simply from over zealous lubing when the bike was used in the very begining then all that lube drying up and turning gooey. not to mention some unwanted corrosion on the derailleurs causing them to be stiff.

Veloria; I would just overhaul the BB and se what is going on in there. be extra careful pulling the cranks though. I think I have an extra BB to fit those Ofmega cranks if you need one.

for the derailleurs I would ditch the cables and try and work them by hand to loosen them up.

again I am sorry to hear the bike was not in as good a condition as we thought. I think it was just neglected by the seller for too long and he just didn't realize it.
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Old 12-09-10, 08:51 AM
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Is the BB a cup and cone model? I've noticed that cartridge BBs (especially those that are overtightened) have the feeling you describe as "indexing". This feeling all but disappears once the cups are adjusted correctly and you turn the spindle with the crank as opposed to turning it with your index finger and thumb.
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Old 12-09-10, 08:56 AM
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Old 12-09-10, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
Is the BB a cup and cone model? I've noticed that cartridge BBs (especially those that are overtightened) have the feeling you describe as "indexing". This feeling all but disappears once the cups are adjusted correctly and you turn the spindle with the crank as opposed to turning it with your index finger and thumb.
I can answer this yes it is a cup and cone model. I think it is just dried up Italian hair jell in there

Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
First question is - what are all you people doing up at 2:00 AM?

My first guess on the BB is with WNG - bearing retainer installed backwards.
The derailleurs - probably just cable tension and limit screws, but cable friction may be an issue as well. Cables and housings are pretty cheap to replace - even if they "look" fine.


Too much Coffee that is what we are doing up a 2AM LOL
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Old 12-09-10, 09:05 AM
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If you try to move the derailleurs by hand, do they move the full range?

Neal
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Old 12-09-10, 09:15 AM
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bottom bracket: i doubt the ball cages are installed backwards. if that were the case, you'd hear the noise of metal-on-metal scraping. i suspect it's just overly tensioned, with the possibility of pitting.

shifting: as others have said, it's most likely that the cables are stretched too loose or they are sticking in the housing. as neal pointed out, with the cables removed, the derailleurs should be able to move their entire range. they should also have a fairly strong return spring action (RD spring pulls RD away from frame, FD spring pulls FD toward frame). it is possible that the failure to shift is due to a broken return spring in the derailleur. if the derailleurs function properly as assessed by hand, i would next replace the cables and housing.
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Old 12-09-10, 09:31 AM
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UH guys lets give Veloria and Hubby a bit of slack. I am sure they would know if the cables are frozen or loose.
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Old 12-09-10, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
UH guys lets give Veloria and Hubby a bit of slack. I am sure they would know if the cables are frozen or loose.
isn't covering all bases better than making assumptions?
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Old 12-09-10, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
OK guys I am going to fess up *blushing* I am partly to blame for Veloria's troubles...
Oh - please don't worry about it! The bike looks very good cosmetically, and no one could have guessed that pretty much every single component on it seems to have some sort of problem. Anyhow, I look at this as a learning experience, so it's all good. Worst case scenario, I don't think I will have any trouble selling it in Spring.

Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
High maintenance Italians are simply not worth it...
That is what my husband said, as he took one scornful look at the celeste paint and Campagnolo components. I am on my own with this one : )
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Old 12-11-10, 10:35 AM
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Hi Veloria. I saw some pics on flicker. how is the cleaning coming along? did the brake get broken in shipping?
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Old 12-11-10, 10:55 AM
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Get down to business on the derailleurs with wd-40, get new cables, open up that BB. The tools are cheap and it's a great thing to know how to do.
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Old 12-11-10, 11:37 AM
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Just my view, but when you purchase an old bike that you plan on riding I think you should completely disassemble it, clean and inspect all the parts, and reassemble properly replacing any bearings, cables, etc. that need attention.

Even a well cared for bike will have dried up grease in the BB, HS, and hubs, the cage pivot on the derailleur will most likely be gummed up, the freewheel will be dry, the chain can have tight spots or be worn, cable housing ends will be rough or collapsed, and so on.

It's also a good opportunity to flush out the frame add some rust preventive and give it a good coat of paste wax.
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Old 12-12-10, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
Hi Veloria. I saw some pics on flicker. how is the cleaning coming along? did the brake get broken in shipping?
Unfortunately no. The damage was caused by the bike being either dropped or crashed, falling to the right. Right side of the handlebars is damaged as well, so those will have to go. (If anybody has a functional Modolo Flash front caliper, let me know!)

The bike is doing better. The derailleurs indeed seem okay other than being frozen/ gummed up - I've just never seen it this bad unless everything was rusty, so it threw me. The BB is not okay after initial tinkering, so I've taken it to a mechanic I like for replacement or possible repair. I am not up to a BB overhaul on my own yet, and I am quite serious that the husband won't help me with this bike! The front wheel, which is in bad shape, may be salvageable - but not sure yet. I am trying to remain very detached until I decide whether I am keeping the bike. But the frame & fork are definitely undamaged and in clean condition, so fingers crossed.

Originally Posted by Ragooch View Post
Just my view, but when you purchase an old bike that you plan on riding I think you should completely disassemble it, clean and inspect all the parts, and reassemble properly replacing any bearings, cables, etc. that need attention... It's also a good opportunity to flush out the frame add some rust preventive and give it a good coat of paste wax.
Oh I agree. But I wanted to determine whether it is worth keeping the bike in the first place, hence trying to diagnose how much time/money I would need to sink into it. It is not as bad as I initially thought, so it is looking more like I will keep it.

Last edited by Veloria; 12-12-10 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 12-12-10, 10:15 AM
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glad to hear the derailleurs are working. I thought for sure it was just too much lube all gummed up. let me know about the BB. as I said I have one for the Ofmega, Campi clonish cranks Bianchi was using in '88ish. can't imagine they are that different.

I don't have the silver flash, I could make you a good deal ona set of dark grey annodized Flash with Celeste accents.

keep up posted on the progress

Do you go to DownEast shop or do you live further north?
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