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Raligh Int'l - Which would you prefer ?

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View Poll Results: Which would you prefer?
Give me an original every time - scratches and all!
28
71.79%
I don't want to ride someone's scratched up bike - Giive me that Restoration job!
11
28.21%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

Raligh Int'l - Which would you prefer ?

Old 12-24-10, 07:30 PM
  #1  
auchencrow
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Raligh Int'l - Which would you prefer ?

I saw this Raleigh International frame, and it just got me wondering - what is originality worth to you?

- Here we have a beautiful, drop-dead gorgeous Raleigh International frame, but it's refinished.

Would you be happier to own such a beautifully restored frame such as this, or an original specimen, with the expected wear and tear and scratches attesting to its age?

- Let's just say that that they were available to you for the same price, and you could reasonably afford either one (but not both!)

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

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Old 12-24-10, 08:10 PM
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I want a ratty one that I can paint whatever color I want, like that one that was shot with primer that sold for $50 back when Ebay was still young and I didn't have 2 quarters to rub together.
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Old 12-24-10, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
You're really leaving this poll open until April?
When you start a poll, it is not clear whether the time units are hours or days, so I erred on the side of "99 hours".
(No harm done: The thread will die long before then.)
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Old 12-24-10, 08:31 PM
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if i was going to ride the bike i would want the restored frame, if i wasnt going to ride it i would want the original paint. i wouldnt feel as bad if i got a scratch on a non original paint frame, (but i would still feel bad!)
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Old 12-24-10, 08:49 PM
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Looks good to me. I don't care that its repainted....

But those aren't the decals for a '71, and I would've removed the rear brake bridge and brake cable guides if I was repainting it. Paint probably cost at least $650., $850. with 15 bids when I just looked probably fair.

I had the same bike in brown circa 1973, complete and original for $200.

The early ones are nice with the "pencil" stays I think.

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Old 12-24-10, 09:00 PM
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"As found" and original, tops the list, but restored myself, gets lots of points, these days. I can't say that buying a bike, someone else has restored, appeals to me, all that much. That said, I can most certainly see where there is a growing market for this sort of thing.
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Old 12-24-10, 09:23 PM
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good point by randy that restored condition is nicer if you restored it yourself. Also, someone pointed out that the restoration isn't correct. and, it's $850 plus $65 shipping now; over a grand in 4 days is alot to pay for a vintage restored frame, sight-unseen. But, despite all that, i voted for this resto, b/c it's just too danged hott...

-rob
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Old 12-24-10, 09:24 PM
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I have one of those in original paint, with only the scratches of assembly clamps, correct transfers too. I like the bright chrome on the refinish, but the later graphics, incorrect made in England transfer placement and the wide lug lining just point to me that they were trying too hard. Maybe I should offer mine up, $850. would be tempting...

Edit on this, I just remember this seller, and the private listing deal, just screams to me, scam. I bet it shows up again in the not too near future...
I'm a cynic I guess. Same seller had a larger International for auction repeatedly, and a really weird Schwinn Paramount that had been rebuilt with alternate seat stays a while back. We live in so much DANGER.

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Old 12-24-10, 09:50 PM
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Only original once.

+1 Never know what damage/rust/dents/other frame damage/or whatever was there prior to the repaint.
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Old 12-24-10, 10:07 PM
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Original is great, but after many years of whatever most older bikes, just like older cars, start to look like crap so it's time to give them a redo. You wouldn't drive a classic car with faded, pitted, scratched, rusted paint just so you can say: "look it's all original" would you? Almost all classic cars are repainted, almost all classic cars are restored; so why would it be taboo for doing that to a bike?
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Old 12-24-10, 10:18 PM
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This is an imaginary poll. We all understand that, right? You are supposed to imagine the bike behind curtain A, it's never been restored. You are supposed to imagine the same bike behind curtain B, restored. Both bikes are whatever you imagine them to be, but they're the same bike, before and after restoration. Yours for the same price, which you may also imagine. Imagine both these bicycles and pick one. I chose the unrestored one.

That's because the poll is imaginary. In the real world I'd say this thread is useless without pictures.
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Old 12-24-10, 10:21 PM
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Your late 20th Century steel bike is not like your late 17th Century William and Mary furniture, is it? - Or is it?
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Old 12-24-10, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
I have one of those in original paint
Yeah, I do too, but its too small!
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Old 12-25-10, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
This is an imaginary poll. We all understand that, right? You are supposed to imagine the bike behind curtain A, it's never been restored. You are supposed to imagine the same bike behind curtain B, restored. Both bikes are whatever you imagine them to be, but they're the same bike, before and after restoration. Yours for the same price, which you may also imagine. Imagine both these bicycles and pick one. I chose the unrestored one.

That's because the poll is imaginary. In the real world I'd say this thread is useless without pictures.
Wow, I missed the imaginary curtain thing, where is the curtain mentioned? OK so I'll play, in an imaginary world where I couldn't see either bike I would take the restore behind curtain B so I'm not surprised to find a rust bucket behind curtain A. Now if the imagination game says both bikes are in pristine condition, and curtain B one was restored to pristine condition and the other behind curtain A was kept that way, then I would take the non restored pristine condition bike behind curtain A.
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Old 12-25-10, 10:33 AM
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I like originality and patina every time. It may not be perfect, but it has a "story" to tell and my bikes tell me a story whenever I ride them. Yeah I'm a bike dork....
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Old 12-25-10, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
Wow, I missed the imaginary curtain thing, where is the curtain mentioned?
I figured it's implicit. The restored bike looks perfect, as shown. The unrestored bike has all the expected wear and tear. Expected, that's the operative term. Whatever you expect, when buying a 37-year old bike, that's what you get. The restored one, it had all the same problems, and it's been restored. Whatever you expect, when buying a restored bike, that's what you get.

But since I don''t expect this game to actually happen, I'm switching expect to imagine.
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Old 12-25-10, 10:40 AM
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I don't get this "private auction" nonsense. What's the advantage to the seller? I'm leery too. And, I can't believe that frame is up to the price it is.
But then , I'm naive.
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Old 12-25-10, 10:54 AM
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I'm a bike rider - let me have it either way and I'll ride it.
(Ha, but only if it fits and the fork isn't bent)

You collectors & experts can debate the details (and I'll watch).
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Old 12-25-10, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
I figured it's implicit. The restored bike looks perfect, as shown. The unrestored bike has all the expected wear and tear. Expected, that's the operative term. Whatever you expect, when buying a 37-year old bike, that's what you get. The restored one, it had all the same problems, and it's been restored. Whatever you expect, when buying a restored bike, that's what you get.

But since I don''t expect this game to actually happen, I'm switching expect to imagine.

Thank you for adding the necessary clarity.
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Old 12-25-10, 11:03 AM
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Unless the owner can provide before and after pictures of a repainted frame I would always suspect damage. But that's just me.

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Old 12-25-10, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
I don't get this "private auction" nonsense. What's the advantage to the seller? I'm leery too. And, I can't believe that frame is up to the price it is.
But then , I'm naive.
With a bit of creativity by the seller I view it as an easy way to hide a shill bidder.
Back in the day of bidders being directly identifiable a case could be made, although the sentence above still applies. With cloaked bidding, I can sometimes confirm A bidder, but never more than that. with cloaked bidding a shill is still identifiable to a degree, it depends on the effort a seller wished to go, but people get lazy. With cloaked bidding one can still view the number of items a bidder is bidding on, and number of sellers, high bid amount, and low seller number is a flag. I have seen it time to time, and things often happen, item is relisted for a claimed non payment by seller, or relisted with no explanation, and if really smart, relisted after the original auction is no longer viewable in the completed auction search.
Its a dangerous world out there.
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Old 12-25-10, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
I figured it's implicit. The restored bike looks perfect, as shown. The unrestored bike has all the expected wear and tear. Expected, that's the operative term. Whatever you expect, when buying a 37-year old bike, that's what you get. The restored one, it had all the same problems, and it's been restored. Whatever you expect, when buying a restored bike, that's what you get.

But since I don''t expect this game to actually happen, I'm switching expect to imagine.
Flawed in execution, but perfectly clean. It should have pin striping too on the side of the seat stays.
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Old 12-25-10, 11:39 AM
  #23  
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I'm biased because I'm a former toy train collector who saw freinds get burned by imitations that were masterfully repainted. The repainted bikes I've seen were not well done and could allow a lower end frame to be sold as a better brand/level frame.
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Old 12-25-10, 11:45 AM
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For what it is worth, the Raleigh "International" is one of my sought after "grail" bikes. Long have I lusted, anyway...

In my mind, there does come a time when the question should be asked - to paint or not to paint?

Here is a perfect example of a bike that I am seriously tangled up on, when that is the question presented. The bike, a Colnago built Saronni. The paint has a healthy share of chips, scuffs and scratches. There is a small dent on the top tube but frame blocks are in the mail as I write. The art is pretty good, and better than the paint, but not by too much.

To paint, or not to paint? I am torn but leaning towards not...
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Old 12-25-10, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by roccobike View Post
I'm biased because I'm a former toy train collector who saw freinds get burned by imitations that were masterfully repainted. The repainted bikes I've seen were not well done and could allow a lower end frame to be sold as a better brand/level frame.
One reason I like unpainted brass.
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