I disagreed before I saw the definitive reply on the score... the only thing that seemed wrong to me was such a short head tube under a stem with so much rise.

Short seat tubes make perfect sense; you shorten the seat tube, top tube and seat stays, and only need a longer seatpost. Upshot: lighter, stiffer frame and more compliant ride. Not to mention more standover clearance and lower centre of gravity.

There is no downside, unless you count the aesthetic side of it... and to my mind, what works better looks better anyway.

i can see that line of thought for mass-produced frames, where they want the smallest number of frame sizes to fit the greatest range of riders. the stiffer frame is arguably offset by the length of post with the majority of the rider's weight being at the end of a long, unsupported tube. CoG is questionable, too, as the majority of weight remains high. While the compact geometry theory you describe offers some viable cost-cutting measures for mass-produced frames, it doesn't offer as many benefits on acustom.

which brings me to the over-riding point re: the frame in question: if the customer wanted his frame like that, folk-eng was right to build it that way.

-rob

Stiffer is usually known as less compliant.

You need to hang out in the Roadie forum more often. Haven't you swallowed the carbon fiber marketing pill yet? Laterally stiff yet vertically compliant!

I've heard that, too, somewhere else. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?

/The laterally stiff/vertically compliant schtick can, theoretically, be achieved via shaping of tubes beyond the round ones folk like us are accustomed to. picture a set of chainstays; if they're perfectly round, the compliance/stiffness will be (theoretically) similar vertically and laterally. Now, picture those chainstays as being smooshed, making them wider side to side and thinner top to bottom. theoretically, this would make the stays flex slightly more in terms of up-n-down, but less in terms of side to side. This is a theoretical and terrbily simplified explanation, but i don't see it much on my bikes.

Regardless, with the CF frames, the builders have even more latitude in terms of tubing shape and thickness than folks working with metal do. They have the ability to maximize one sort of stiffness while fostering some kind of compliance in other parameters. And, I don't doubt that they make an honest, somewhat successful attempt to do this. For now, it's all academic to me, b/c i intend to keep riding steel til they hatch up something that i like better, and that is better suited to a fat guy riding around for fun and exercise.

-rob

You must be new here. :p

You've heard it all over the place I'm sure. I think its safe to say that its a Cliche.

Google "Vertically Stiff Laterally Compliant" and you'll get thousands of bike frame reviews that involve the poster praising the frame's ride quality as "Vertically Stiff yet Laterally Compliant"

"Vertically Stiff Laterally Compliant" = Levis after a week of camping

surreal, what you say makes sense. In that case, tubes ought to be wide laterally and short vertically. And they aren't! So:

- they're missing an opportunity, or
- they haven't thought of this (yet), or
- it isn't actually a good idea to have it vertically compliant and laterally stiff, or
- what else?

Tom

ZB, you have it backwards.

I see whatcha mean, Tom, but to be honest, I can't really tell what they're trying to do, anymore. Especially with complicated dual-suspension mtbs made of carbon fiber and other stuff, with links and pivots everywhere, trying to make 'em bounce on bumps but not as ya pedal...

I'm all for progress, but i prefer progress that seems, well, progressive.

-rob

I'm sure blue Locktite would secure those bolts.

+1.

I'm also sure that retightening the bolts a couple times a year would secure them, too. I doubt if i'd ever use those bosses, but i think they make a frame look truly mean, like a highly decorated military officer or something...

-rob

If blue doesn't do it, red sure will!



Beautiful bikes! I may have to stop in at the open house. It's pretty close to me and easy to get to.

be cool to see a bunch of jersey boy CV folk at this thing - i will def make an effort to go - i dont see myself lining up for a custom build anytime soon - quite content to haunt the flea market for now for my CV picks

marley, where do you live?

Tom

I'm gonna try to make it. I'd be hip to a ride or a pub meet in conjunction, too, but first I gotta ask my wife.

central jersey - monroe (basically near rutgers new bruns)

I should invite the Brick City (Newark) Bicycle Coalition. They're into bar hopping. ;) They combine that with rides.

Hey everyone,

I love to see such lively conversation regarding our growing company. One note though... please contact us via our regular email; info@folkengineered.com. We have yet to post 50 times on BF and therefore cannot send Personal Messages.
Thanks for your interest. Hope to hear from you soon....

I dig it when companies keep an informative presence on the forums, but it's also a good sign for the longevity of a company when it seems they keep themselves busy with things other than internet electrons...!