Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Hub Brake Extravaganza! What would/did you build?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Hub Brake Extravaganza! What would/did you build?

Old 01-02-11, 01:24 PM
  #1  
Zaphod Beeblebrox 
PanGalacticGargleBlaster
Thread Starter
 
Zaphod Beeblebrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Smugglers Notch, Vermont
Posts: 7,536

Bikes: Upright and Recumbent....too many to list, mostly Vintage.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Hub Brake Extravaganza! What would/did you build?

I'm looking at some hub options for a new wheelset and I've decided to go with hub brakes (drum brakes, roller brakes, ibrake if you're an SRAM kinda person).

So tell me, which would you go for?

Shimano Nexus 7 Hub with Roller Brake


Shimano Nexus 8 hub with Roller Brake


Shimano 7 Speed Freehub w/ Roller Brake


I guess the question is really....internal gears or derailleur gears?
__________________
--Don't Panic.
Zaphod Beeblebrox is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 06:03 PM
  #2  
wahoonc
Membership Not Required
 
wahoonc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855

Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
I already have one bike with roller brakes front and rear, Redline R530, it has the Nexus 7 hub in the rear. I have another bike that has a Nexus 8 Redband, it can take a roller brake but I don't have it set up that way.

I am getting hubs to build my son a city bike, that one is most likely going to be Sturmey Archer 5 speed with drum brakes and a dyno hub with drum brakes. I also have a Nexus 7 coaster brake hub that hasn't been built into a wheel yet.

My personal preference in most cases is the IGH, I currently only own 3 derailleur bikes out of 26+, most are IGH with a few single speeds.

Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
_Nicodemus

"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
_krazygluon
wahoonc is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 06:13 PM
  #3  
steppinthefunk 
Designer
 
steppinthefunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,373
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I know nothing about the performance of these hubs but I am quite interested in pairing a Sturmey Archer XL-RD3 3-speed, 90mm drum hub with a XL-FDD front dynohub with 90mm drum. Why Sturmey Archer? Because of the history in the name


__________________
steppinthefunk is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 08:00 PM
  #4  
Mike Mills
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,929
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox View Post
I guess the question is really....internal gears or derailleur gears?
I can't really help with the brake question other than to say, it seems more difficult to get a clean installation/integration of a hub brake than rim brakes unless the bike is built for hub brakes. I believe this is because almost all bikes are built to use rim brakes.

Regarding gearing, I'd suggest you try the Nexus or Alfine IGH's. I did and am very happy with it.
Mike Mills is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 08:29 PM
  #5  
surreal
Senior Member
 
surreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
i vote for sturmey-archer; they make dynamo versions of the front with either 70 or 90mm drum brakes, and they make rear IGHs with both size drums, as well as a f/w and 8/9/10speed freehub version with 70mm drum brakes. All the recent SA hubs are well-finished and quite affordable, and the 3 speeds are s'posed to be dead-reliable.

Shimano's roller-brakes have a design that looks to address fade due to heat a little bit, but i've often seen them criticized in print for ma lack of power. (The SA drums are criticized for the incredibly long break-in period, after which they become pretty strong, or so i'm told.) I'm pretty sure shimano are no longer making dynamos with the roller-brake mounts, which is a shame. Perhaps you can find one used or NOS?

hth
-rob
surreal is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 08:33 PM
  #6  
ilikebikes
K2ProFlex baby!
 
ilikebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: My response would have been something along the lines of: "Does your bike have computer controlled suspension? Then shut your piehole, this baby is from the future!"
Posts: 6,124

Bikes: to many to list

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by steppinthefunk View Post
I know nothing about the performance of these hubs but I am quite interested in pairing a Sturmey Archer XL-RD3 3-speed, 90mm drum hub with a XL-FDD front dynohub with 90mm drum. Why Sturmey Archer? Because of the history in the name


Is SA still the same company? If so go with SA.

OP, if your going to go with any of them might as well go with the 8, but me? I'd go with derailleurs, if either one breaks down it can be repaired or replaced easily and cheaply.
__________________
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve

Last edited by ilikebikes; 01-02-11 at 08:39 PM.
ilikebikes is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 09:16 PM
  #7  
surreal
Senior Member
 
surreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
ilikebikes- the formerly british-owned sturmey-archer sold their name and all their tooling to the same conglomerate in Taiwan that makes all the sunrace stuff. definitely not the same company, which is a shame, but the general consensus is that the taiwanese stuff is, in general, superior to the later Brit SA bits. Apparently, qc got very lax with SA-UK towards the end of their run, and most of the tooling was thrashed by the time the new company took over. Still, they used very similar designs, s'posedly eliminated the false-neutral issue, and most of their hubs have a very good rep for reliability, with the exception of the 8speed, which many users report significant issues with. The 8speed has a silly gearing set up, where direct drive is the lowest gear, with 7(!) step-ups, so it's basically designed for folders and 'bents, although some have tried it with super-small front rings. So, that one has limited application for most riders.

-rob
surreal is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 09:27 PM
  #8  
Roll-Monroe-Co
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,308
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by steppinthefunk View Post
I know nothing about the performance of these hubs but I am quite interested in pairing a Sturmey Archer XL-RD3 3-speed, 90mm drum hub with a XL-FDD front dynohub with 90mm drum. Why Sturmey Archer? Because of the history in the name


I have built up a bike with this exact (approximate?) combination. (Three speed with the smaller diameter drums and the front drum/dynamo combo.)

My wife rides it. Here's what you end of up with:

Totally enclosed and bulletproof? Check.
Heavy? Check. Really heavy.
Drum brakes squeal a little and aren't -- just noticeably -- quite as powerful as you'd like (though maybe it has to do with the levers I'm using)? Check.

Because of the weight, the gearing range is a little narrow.

Also, as Mike Mills says, if you need to remove a wheel (particularly the rear), look out. You will need some dedicated time. There are about 30 things you have to unleash, loosen, etc. before you can get the wheel out.

However, once you get it into adjustment, and you don't get a flat, there's no fuss, no muss.

If I were building this bike for me or doing it over (and SA made the hub), I would go with a 5-speed with the larger drum, front and back. If you're going to carrying that kind of weight, you might as well have the gear range and stopping power that make it worthwhile.

I built this bike up from scratch, so I'd be glad to answer any questions you have about setting it up.

Eric
Roll-Monroe-Co is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 09:47 PM
  #9  
Roll-Monroe-Co
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,308
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by surreal View Post
The SA drums are criticized for the incredibly long break-in period, after which they become pretty strong, or so i'm told.
Hmm. I hadn't heard of this. Maybe it's the cause of the braking power/squealing issues. My wife does not exactly ride 30 miles/day.
Roll-Monroe-Co is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 09:54 PM
  #10  
surreal
Senior Member
 
surreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Roll-Monroe-Co View Post
Hmm. I hadn't heard of this. Maybe it's the cause of the braking power/squealing issues. My wife does not exactly ride 30 miles/day.
could be;but what levers are you using? some folks, and some bike companies who spec SA drum-hubs oem, use these with long-pull v-brake levers, but SA and others with more credibility say that short-pull is the way to roll. Sheldon said that older-vintage brakes designed around aged canti-brakes, which might be described as "medium-to-short-pull" are the best. but, the bottom line is, when i was researching the brakes prior to purchase, everyone said that the break-in is deadly long, but you end up with very nice braking performance at the end of it. Wish i had some sources to link, but any google search will likely yield some info to that effect.

hth
-rob

ps-yes, they're heavy, but they're designed for non-performance type bikes; commuters and such, so the weight isn't as big of an issue imo
surreal is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 10:24 PM
  #11  
Roll-Monroe-Co
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,308
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by surreal View Post
could be;but what levers are you using? some folks, and some bike companies who spec SA drum-hubs oem, use these with long-pull v-brake levers, but SA and others with more credibility say that short-pull is the way to roll. Sheldon said that older-vintage brakes designed around aged canti-brakes, which might be described as "medium-to-short-pull" are the best. but, the bottom line is, when i was researching the brakes prior to purchase, everyone said that the break-in is deadly long, but you end up with very nice braking performance at the end of it. Wish i had some sources to link, but any google search will likely yield some info to that effect.

hth
-rob

ps-yes, they're heavy, but they're designed for non-performance type bikes; commuters and such, so the weight isn't as big of an issue imo
Yeah, I believe those are v-brake levers (this is an area I'm kind of fuzzy about ... I just think of them as "mountain bike levers"... if that's even what they are).

I read Sheldon's article about leverage/cable pull--it's been a while, and I didn't really absorb it then. I should review.

The plastic levers that came from SA were soooo cheapy, I just couldn't bear to put them on the bike. They probably would work better though.
Roll-Monroe-Co is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 10:52 PM
  #12  
surreal
Senior Member
 
surreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
shimano makes some flat-bar style canti brakelevers. dia-compe makes all-aluminum ones ranging from $12 upwards. Any bmx levers would work, although, you'd have to find them as a left/right pair. Very old mtb-levers from the canti-era would work. the plastic POC-levers that SA gave you would work, but i'd just grab something else.

I can't say for sure, but i bet the squeaking is related to the leverage issue from using the wrong levers.

good luck!
-rob

Last edited by surreal; 01-02-11 at 11:52 PM. Reason: clarity!
surreal is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 10:56 PM
  #13  
mixtemaniac
Senior Member
 
mixtemaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 339

Bikes: 1981 Sekai 1500 Mixte, 1974 Schwinn Le Tour Mixte, 1984 Peugeot Mixte, 1975 Gitane Grand Sport Deluxe Mixte, Motobecane Nomade II Mixte, 2001 Trek 520, 1974 Peugeot UO-18 Mixte

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Roll-Monroe-Co View Post
I have built up a bike with this exact (approximate?) combination. (Three speed with the smaller diameter drums and the front drum/dynamo combo.)

My wife rides it. Here's what you end of up with:
---snip---
Eric

What frame is that?
mixtemaniac is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 11:00 PM
  #14  
mixtemaniac
Senior Member
 
mixtemaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 339

Bikes: 1981 Sekai 1500 Mixte, 1974 Schwinn Le Tour Mixte, 1984 Peugeot Mixte, 1975 Gitane Grand Sport Deluxe Mixte, Motobecane Nomade II Mixte, 2001 Trek 520, 1974 Peugeot UO-18 Mixte

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've ridden both the newer SA and the Nexus. The Nexus is superior. The gear spacing and shifter are better quality. Having the drum heatsink on the 8s Nexus is worth it imo. As an aside, the Alfine blows the Nexus out of the water in terms of gearing, reliability, build quality and cog options. However, there is no drum brake option that I'm aware of. You could always braze on some disc tabs though
mixtemaniac is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 11:04 PM
  #15  
mixtemaniac
Senior Member
 
mixtemaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 339

Bikes: 1981 Sekai 1500 Mixte, 1974 Schwinn Le Tour Mixte, 1984 Peugeot Mixte, 1975 Gitane Grand Sport Deluxe Mixte, Motobecane Nomade II Mixte, 2001 Trek 520, 1974 Peugeot UO-18 Mixte

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by surreal View Post
could be;but what levers are you using? some folks, and some bike companies who spec SA drum-hubs oem, use these with long-pull v-brake levers, but SA and others with more credibility say that short-pull is the way to roll. Sheldon said that older-vintage brakes designed around aged canti-brakes, which might be described as "medium-to-short-pull" are the best. but, the bottom line is, when i was researching the brakes prior to purchase, everyone said that the break-in is deadly long, but you end up with very nice braking performance at the end of it. Wish i had some sources to link, but any google search will likely yield some info to that effect.

hth
-rob

ps-yes, they're heavy, but they're designed for non-performance type bikes; commuters and such, so the weight isn't as big of an issue imo
I can echo the long break-in period. Also, don't expect the performance of a v-brake and certainly not a disc. They can be a real pain in the ass to work on too. They do work good in the rain compared to a side-pull, dual pivot, or canti rim brake. I think they look rather nice too. Almost all city (mama chari) bikes in Japan come with drum brakes it seems.

Last edited by mixtemaniac; 01-02-11 at 11:06 PM. Reason: typo
mixtemaniac is offline  
Old 01-02-11, 11:06 PM
  #16  
Roll-Monroe-Co
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,308
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by mixtemaniac View Post
What frame is that?
Something Japanese-for-the-Japanese ... Nagasawa? The model name is "Milky Way" (now painted over).
Roll-Monroe-Co is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 12:22 AM
  #17  
mixtemaniac
Senior Member
 
mixtemaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 339

Bikes: 1981 Sekai 1500 Mixte, 1974 Schwinn Le Tour Mixte, 1984 Peugeot Mixte, 1975 Gitane Grand Sport Deluxe Mixte, Motobecane Nomade II Mixte, 2001 Trek 520, 1974 Peugeot UO-18 Mixte

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Nagasawa is a brand that mostly makes track frames. Jitensha is the Japanese word for bicycle. It looks very much like a standard mama chari style bike.
mixtemaniac is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
scale
Bicycle Mechanics
15
12-16-17 03:39 PM
calikid2006
Bicycle Mechanics
11
09-02-16 10:59 AM
fotooutdoors
Adaptive Cycling: Handcycles, Amputee Adaptation, Visual Impairment, and Other Needs
5
06-09-14 03:14 PM
long john
Bicycle Mechanics
4
09-13-13 09:24 AM
vibrantpigeon
Classic & Vintage
1
09-01-11 11:21 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.