Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Unusual Raleigh 3 Speed

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Unusual Raleigh 3 Speed

Old 01-03-11, 11:09 AM
  #1  
sciencemonster
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Unusual Raleigh 3 Speed

We had some company skip out ont he rent, and one of their employees was kind enough to leave me this bike to find a new home for:

It's an unusual bike - I don't really know what to make of it.

26" wheels with rod brakes - very unusual - connected up to drum brakes front and rear. Full chaincase with all the little parts intact. Pin stripping. Stock black rack, dried out sprung B66.

Miller generator and lights with the wiring run _inside_ the frame - and it looks stock, too, not some aftermarket mod by a guy with a drill. Plastic skirt guard (on a men's bike!) and a wheel lock.

Pedal reflectors and hubs dated '69, but the decals all are late 40s or early 50s - very strange. It needs a major clean up/overhaul, but is just dirty with some light rust here and there - It will make a great winter project. Despite it's weird componentry, it does not look like a frankenbike. It looks all original. I thought it might be foreign-made, but it has 'England' all over it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMG_0104.jpg (98.4 KB, 327 views)
sciencemonster is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 11:22 AM
  #2  
Roll-Monroe-Co
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,308
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by sciencemonster View Post
- It will make a great winter project.
You have winter in San Mateo California?
Roll-Monroe-Co is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 11:23 AM
  #3  
sciencemonster
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Roll-Monroe-Co View Post
You have winter in San Mateo California?
Sorry, I meant 'winter-ish' project. Sometimes it's just too much hassle to find a sweater to wear for a ride, and I stay in.

Last edited by sciencemonster; 01-03-11 at 12:28 PM.
sciencemonster is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 12:41 PM
  #4  
Doohickie 
You gonna eat that?
 
Doohickie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas Church of Hopeful Uncertainty
Posts: 14,714

Bikes: 1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, 1973 Schwinn Varsity, 1983 Raleigh Marathon, 1994 Nishiki Sport XRS

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked 42 Times in 27 Posts
Heheh.

Cool find.
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.


Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
Doohickie is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 01:19 PM
  #5  
David Newton
Wood
 
David Newton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Beaumont, Tx
Posts: 2,301

Bikes: Raleigh Sports: hers. Vianelli Professional & Bridgestone 300: mine

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Ya know, England IS "foreign made".
Neat bike, never heard of a Sports with interior wiring. The rods-to-drums is pretty unique also. Fully optioned Sports, early post war is right, unless it was a personal build by a knowledgable Raleigh owner.
Where's that 50's catalog?
David Newton is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 01:27 PM
  #6  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,640

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 527 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1798 Post(s)
Liked 306 Times in 202 Posts
I wouldn't call it a "Frankenbike" because that's just too pejorative. But if Raleigh had run internal wiring, they would have done it from a dynohub, not a sidewall dynamo. What is that sidewall dynamo, anyway? Anyway, as you pointed out, your frame decals are from one era while your hubs are from another. There's got to be a reason for that. So... it's not a Frankenbike, but definitely has had some cool upgrades. I'd like to see more photos, especially of the brake linkages. Also, the trigger shifter... is it an early 50's one, or a late 60's one?
rhm is online now  
Old 01-03-11, 01:28 PM
  #7  
sciencemonster
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
For the purposes of discussing Raleigh 3 Speeds, we are all English.

At first that's what I thought - but how could this possibly be - who would upgrade in 1969 a 1950s bike to rod brakes? It doesn't make any sense. I can see the reflector pedals...I can see the drum brakes. But why would they upgrade to rod actuated brakes? The hardware for the rod brakes is original - the frame is designed for it. It's got specialized parts to use with drum brakes. Maybe someone replaced the hubs and pedals in 1969?

Baffling.
sciencemonster is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 01:35 PM
  #8  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,640

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 527 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1798 Post(s)
Liked 306 Times in 202 Posts
I'm sure the rod brake bits are original; I think what you have is a Dawn Tourist, which was a 26" rod brake roadster. The guy had rod brakes, and wanted drum brakes; so he changed the hubs and made the new ones work with the rods.


Last edited by rhm; 01-03-11 at 01:39 PM.
rhm is online now  
Old 01-03-11, 01:45 PM
  #9  
David Newton
Wood
 
David Newton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Beaumont, Tx
Posts: 2,301

Bikes: Raleigh Sports: hers. Vianelli Professional & Bridgestone 300: mine

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
But it isn't the original rod brake set up, it has the front drum bell-crank hardware showing, and would need the drum specific rear hardware also.
I'm not saying it couldn't be a conversion, but those are pretty hard to find items, and the rims are not rod brake rims.

Last edited by David Newton; 01-03-11 at 01:49 PM.
David Newton is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 01:58 PM
  #10  
sciencemonster
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yes, that would make sense. Two questions I would have would where would he come up witht he hardware to adapt rod brakes to drum brakes - he's have to trash a whole other bike for the special little bits as pictured...

The bike has a plastic strap on pulley and what looks to me like a 60s or 70s trigger, blank, missing the plastic logo piece.



Edit: David beat me to it...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMG_0105.jpg (96.3 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg
IMG_0110.jpg (86.9 KB, 74 views)
sciencemonster is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 01:58 PM
  #11  
AL NZ
Senior Member
 
AL NZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 265
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by David Newton View Post
...and the rims are not rod brake rims.
my understanding of Westrick rims are that they are both rod- and rim-brake compatible
AL NZ is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 02:03 PM
  #12  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,640

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 527 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1798 Post(s)
Liked 306 Times in 202 Posts
Hard to find now, yes. Hard to find in 1969, maybe, but I don't know. They did make rod-activated drum brakes once; I've seen that setup on bikes from the 30's- 40's.

I agree those aren't rod brake rims, but if someone replaced the hubs in 1969 I wouldn't really expect him to retain the original rims. When the owner of my orange Norman replaced the AW hub in 1970, he replaced the whole wheel. In fact I suspect the rims were the reason they replaced the hubs; if they couldn't find 26" Westwood rims to replace the originals, then drum brakes may have seemed the best option.

The bike shop where I worked in 1980-1 had been at that location since 1937, and elsewhere in DC for decades before that. There were hundreds of drawers full of all kinds of funky NOS stuff behind the counter, and countless bins of take-off parts downstairs. I can well imagine the owner bringing his 20-year old bike into such a shop in 1969... mechanic looks it over and says, yup, we have the parts for that.

Last edited by rhm; 01-03-11 at 02:08 PM.
rhm is online now  
Old 01-03-11, 02:05 PM
  #13  
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 14,351
Mentioned: 349 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2247 Post(s)
Liked 1,902 Times in 962 Posts
I agree that made in England for a non-US market is very likely. I've found that '50s Raleigh Sports have the Raleigh Industries stamp on every component, and 60s and 70s Sports have the Sir Walter logo stamped in lots of places. Any sign of that? What's the front hub look like?

Neal
nlerner is online now  
Old 01-03-11, 02:47 PM
  #14  
gna
Count Orlok Member
 
gna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,615

Bikes: Raleigh Sports, Raleigh Twenty, Raleigh Wyoming, Schwinn Le Tour Luxe Frankenbike

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by sciencemonster View Post
Plastic skirt guard (on a men's bike!) and a wheel lock.
That's a coat guard. Or a Kilt guard.
gna is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 02:54 PM
  #15  
sciencemonster
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The front hub matches the back - '69.

The handlebars have the little guy on the front.

Rust Prevention sticker on the head tube, hidden under the brake linkage.

Sorry for the crappy photos - I'm at work, with a crappy iPod camera.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMG_0111.jpg (94.9 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg
IMG_0113.jpg (88.2 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg
IMG_0114.jpg (64.1 KB, 57 views)
sciencemonster is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 03:35 PM
  #16  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 6,528

Bikes: 1980 Mike Melton, 1982 Stumpjumper, 1982 Santana, 1984 Alex Moulton AM, 2008 BikeFriday tikit T-11, 2010 Dawes Briercliffe, 2017 Dahon Curl i5, 2019 Surly ˝DT14

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 821 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times in 218 Posts
Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
I agree that made in England for a non-US market is very likely.
Hong Kong, Singapore, a place like that perhaps? The 26 x 1 3/8, hub brake, chain case, sidewall generator bike design format is still manufactured in Japan by Bridgestone and Panasonic.
tcs is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 05:48 PM
  #17  
sailorbenjamin 
26 tpi nut.
 
sailorbenjamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rhode Island (an obscure suburb of Connecticut)
Posts: 5,703

Bikes: one of each

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
The kilt guard looks Dutch.
__________________
I have spoken.
sailorbenjamin is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 06:36 PM
  #18  
folderfan550
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a men's Raleigh Tourist de Luxe (DL-1) that was made for the Danish market. It has internal wiring for the taillight and a rod actuated rear drum brake. It seems that your bike easily could also have been made for Denmark, the Netherlands or elsewhere. A relative in Denmark has a ladies' frame Raleigh that also has a different combination of components than usual found in North American Raleigh 3-speeds.
folderfan550 is offline  
Old 01-03-11, 06:47 PM
  #19  
sciencemonster
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wow, just put it up against my '51 and realized - it's a 23 inch bike. I've had four or five 40s and 50s Raleighs - always 21 inches.
sciencemonster is offline  
Old 01-09-11, 03:12 AM
  #20  
FishBiscuit
Senior Member
 
FishBiscuit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 54

Bikes: 1976 Raleigh Tourist, 1973 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh International

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts


Wow! That's really cool! Have you had any luck finding a new home for it? If not, my apartment always has room for another bike

I'm really curious to see what the chainwheel looks like. Does it have the Herons? It seems to have been the bike of a crafty tinkerer. Is the top of the handlebar stamped with the Raleigh logo?

Last edited by FishBiscuit; 01-09-11 at 03:24 AM.
FishBiscuit is offline  
Old 01-09-11, 08:35 AM
  #21  
Amesja
Cottered Crank
 
Amesja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,493

Bikes: 1954 Raleigh Sports 1974 Raleigh Competition 1969 Raleigh Twenty 1964 Raleigh LTD-3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
I think this was MY bike in a previous incarnation/life. I can totally see myself building this bike...
Amesja is offline  
Old 01-09-11, 08:59 AM
  #22  
Maddox
Ride heavy metal.
 
Maddox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Teenage Wasteland, USA
Posts: 1,633

Bikes: '74 Raleigh LTD-3, '76 Motobecane Grand Jubile, '83 Fuji TSIII (customized commuter), '10 Mercier Kilo WT (fixed obsession), '83 Bianchi Alloro, '92 Bridgestone MB-1 (project), '83 Specialized Expedition (project), '79 Peugeot UO-8 (sold)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just so you know (I assume you do, sometimes it just helps to hear it) - that's an incredible find. I'm in the western states as well, and really wanted to track down an old Raleigh Sports to restore. I could only get as far as late 60's-early 70's. Not bad, but nowhere near as unique and beautiful as this one.

Just wanted to say I envy you. Looks to be in dusty but great condition, so enjoy the rebuild. If you decide you want to get rid of it, I'm sure you'd be able to find many interested suitors lining up around the block.
Maddox is offline  
Old 01-09-11, 10:24 AM
  #23  
sciencemonster
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yea, I think a lot of these old Raleighs found there way to the Bay Area post war. I've seen a lot of them around here, and the ones that found me have been extraordinary.

It's ironical - a 26", full chaincase, rod brake bike was my holy grail three years ago, and I never even dreamed about a 23" one - that doesn't even exist! But now I'm all 531 and weight weenie spoiled. This is a pretty involved project - these bikes are a b!itch to rebuild, and this one has internal wiring to boot!
sciencemonster is offline  
Old 01-09-11, 10:35 AM
  #24  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 26,400

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1471 Post(s)
Liked 1,677 Times in 977 Posts
That could be an export model - this scheme was gone in the States by 1960, but continued to be used in other markets. Remember the Aussie '62 Sports that popped up in the 56/7/8/9 Sports thread? Prime example.

Unquestionably, it's a variant of the Dawn, but a rod drum-brake variant. Not a common beast, but the setup is common in the Netherlands.

Here's where it should get very interesting: The revised TI tooling was in full use for the States bikes by 1963. Does this bike show evidence of the older tooling or the then-current tooling from 1969? Quickest way to ID it would be by the lugs:

Pre-1960:


1960-198X:


Out of curiosity, what is the serial on it? There is the possibility that it had both its wheels and pedals swapped with a '69 - though the top tube cable stop is most definitely a 1950's-era piece. Very strange.

This might be a '50s Dawn that someone retrofitted with rod drum brakes in '69 for wet-weather convenience. Quite possible.

I've never heard of a Sports with internal wiring, for the record. Do you have a photo of the wire hole inserts? I dare say they've been drilled out.

Take care,

-Kurt

P.S.: Scary thing is, it's my size
__________________








Last edited by cudak888; 01-09-11 at 10:39 AM.
cudak888 is offline  
Old 01-09-11, 10:56 AM
  #25  
sciencemonster
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It's got the latter lugs, so I guess it IS a '69 after all. The crank does not have the Herons. The serial #, I guess, is TK19318 although it seems in an odd place on the left side of the seat tube. The electrical looks factory to me, as the hole in the back for the fender lite looks formed, not just drilled out. I'll post more pics in a sec.
sciencemonster is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.