So, what brake pads to use?
 

I have 2 bikes that are in need of new pads. Late 60's Raleigh and an older (not sure on year) 3 speed Schwinn. I am curious what there are for replacements out there. I am going to use the Schwinn for commutes in cold weather, can I use a newer MTB threaded pad or?? Both still have the original brake calipers on them. I am all ears.

Kool-Stop Salmon Continental. I wouldn't use anything else on steel rims.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/b...ml#continental

(Though you may be able to find them cheaper elsewhere.)

Seriously, they work better than anything else, particularly in cold weather -- though they still won't make a steel-rimmed 3-speed stop fast in the rain. They're a little bit softer than ordinary pads, which means that rusty/pitted rims will chew them up faster. But they're worth it.

If you object to the all-over-orange color, you might try prying the old rubber out of the metal holders you've currently got and replacing it with one of the Kool-Stop inserts -- but it's probably not worth the effort.

+1 Can't do much better than those.

I think the Avenir Sticky Fingers pads are every bit as good as the Kool Stops. Have them both on my current MTB and at half the price the Avenir's are just as good. Their Caliper version is way better than any of the cheap carded block-type brakes pads. They have a funny shape, but are well made. They are threaded inside the pads and are fastened by a really nice Allen-head button bolt from the outside rather than the age-old tacky nut and washer system that has been used in caliper brakes since the turn of the century (19th century that is).

I haven't tried the Avenir Sticky Fingers pads. For me, the advantage of KoolStop pads is the tremendous variety of shapes they offer. I've bought three or four sets of the replacement pads they sell for old Campy (and other) brake shoes:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/i...top-brk22a.jpg
Assuming the shoe is open at the back, you just slip out the old rubber and slide these in, for a look that's as close to authentic as you can get.

I was looking at the cool stops before I posted the question. They seem to have good reviews. I will also look into the Sticky Fingers. Thanks

Wow, that's pretty cool having the raw rubber blocks to fit any old housing. The Avenir caliper pads do look a little odd in a 50's vintage Raleigh Sports but they REALLY WORK.

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5...00aa300690.jpg

I just can't afford not to have brakes that work when in traffic. My life is worth more than that. But these Kool-stop replacement blocks are a great idea.

I've got a pair of Kool Stop dual-compound cantilever pads on the rear of my Ross and they do OK. I had an issue with them on the front brakes because they wouldn't fit. They are so long they interfered with the fork tubes. I guess the braze-on cantelever bosses are not as far away from the forks as newer bikes. They didn't seem to work nearly as well when installed backwards. the Avenir Canti pads have the same problem but running them backwards doesn't seem to have that performance penalty (I actually can't feel any difference forwards/backwards.

Since the Avenirs are about half the price of the comparable Kool-Stop that helps my decision a lot when it comes time to buy new ones. Similar performance (IMHO), half the price...

And, I see on the Harris site that they now offer these in black too. But, they say they don't stop quite as well as the salmon. Wonder why not. I still have some Mathauser "salmon" colored pads, figuring I'd replace my Nuovo Records, but haven't needed to, yet.

Just be aware that at least one of the reviews of the Avenir pads on Amazon is from me -full disclosure. So you aren't getting a second opinion on them between here and there if they are both me. I'm not sure there are any others on there at all unless they were put up in the last day or so. I really love them though. Perahps there are others out there who have had bad experiences with them. I do know that the standard no-name black pads you can buy at your local LBS are terrible.

The up-side is that the orange rubber compound is softer and "grabbier" than the black. The down-side is that they will wear out faster than the black. I've installed them on 60+ year old bikes with steel rims, on which the braking power is never great, especially when it's wet out. I also have the modern style (eagle 2) ones installed on the V-brakes on my folding bike, on which I commute. The stopping power is impressive; I don't mind replacing them more often (though I haven't had to, yet).

I tried the salmon pads on my NR brakes on my Raleigh, but couldn't get them to stay quiet, so I bought the black ones. The black pads probably don't stop quite as well as the salmon, but the racket was driving me nuts. I did wind up adjusting toe in by bending the arms slightly with an adjustable wrench :eek:. Probably should have tried that with the salmon pads.

The Avenir sticky fingers look interesting and look like they would fit.

I wouldn't be too eeked-out over adjusting toe-in with a wrench like that. It is a common thing to do and we did it all the time in the 70's to stop squeal.

With modern brake shoes you are going to find that the metallurgy of the vintage Raleigh brake components are not up to par with the forces that will be achieved. Things are going to bend anyhow if you brake really hard. I had to put the little angle-bracket bits back into the rear brakes that transmit the force into the wheelstays to keep the rears from self-destructing and the fronts can't be helped so be prepared to bend something back from time to time -especially the mounting bolt which may just bend up with the brake if the brake calipers are wore where they pivot so they don't hold it perfectly solid over the pivot. The brakes caliper arms themselves will tend to bend a bit too.

The kinds of braking forces that modern pads can generate are well beyond what the original Raleigh engineers could have envisioned at the time they designed them. Add in alloy rims and we up the ante even further over steel.

^I agree, it's okay to toe in your brakes, even if they're Campy. Think of it as an adjustment. Not that the salmon-colored pads are really necessary if you have Campy brakes, which are pretty strong anyway. The value of the soft rubber is much more obvious on squishy old sidepulls, like these:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/...3c1ab3a0_b.jpg
Amesja, look closely! There's an adjustable clamp that holds the brake arms to the fork blades to support them in the way you describe. This is original 1950 equipment!

Those would work. Probably something that could be made out of #9 iron tie wire!

My fronts are bending a bit.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3...leighfront.jpg

The rears are held in check by the stay brackets.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1074/rearraleigh.jpg

Excuse the nubs on the new Kendas. There has been too much salt outside lately to ride something with such poor paint condition. One of these days it is bound to dry up on the roads enough that I'll be willing to take this old war horse back out on the road and put some real miles on her.

Indeed! ! ! Kool-Stop Salmon Continental

So do these various new "wonder pads" work well on steel rims? "Old Schwinn 3spd" and "60's vintage Raleigh" sound like steel rims to me, and BITD, Mathauser pads had a rep for being SUPER grabby (as in dangerously so) on steel.

Oh, and the comment about Campy brakes not needing KS or other aftermarket brake shoes made me laugh. My first set of Campy NR brakes stand out as the absolute effing WORST brakes I've ever used until I switched out the Campy pads for Mathausers. No stopping power a tall. Modulation? Sorry, gotta have stopping power for that. And even with the new shoes, they were marginal compared to most other brakes I've used. Pretty, tho'.

SP
Bend, OR

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/i...top/supra2.jpg

I've used these Supra 2 pads with centerpulls with good results. They don't look period-correct and you need to make sure you have enough fork and stay clearance, but the toeing adjustment washers make setup a breeze. I wouldn't use them with those thin calipers, though. I expect they'd generate too much bending force.

I know I'm gonna take some abuse for this,
but if it keeps you safer, it's worth it.

I have ridden a Raleigh 3speed as basic around
town transport for probably 30 years. The first
upgrade I always make is to swap out the brakes
for something in a forged alloy sidepull like a
Dia Compe with the correct reach.

The brakes these came with as original equipment
are simply not up to the job. So give it some thought
and make up your own mind.

Changing out the pads will certainly help some,
but if you want real braking (and I submit to you
there may come a time when it seems critically
important to you), you need to bite the bullet
and swap out the brakes.

If the Schwinn has some kind of alloy sidepull -
as many did -- you should be good there.

:trainwreck:

Oh, I'm not going to abuse you, but I do disagree. Long reach cheapo aluminum sidepulls are hardly an upgrade over long reach steel sidepulls. IMHO grabbier brake shoes are a real improvement in braking power.

I pick up the Scott or Scott/Mathauser any chance I get. You can still find sets of 4 in the shoes on ebay now and then... Even got a set of pads for my Mafacs. I've never found them to be grabby.

On alloy rims, or steel?

SP
Bend, OR

I don't think we're using the same definition of grabby. I'm referring to the phenomenon where ANY application of the brake results in immediate lockup. No modulation. Touch the front brake and you're lying in the middle of the street wondering why your head hurts. That's what I mean by grabby. And that was the common experience with Mathausers on steel rims.

SP
Bend, OR

I was doing some reading about that. I even had a thought of going to a long reach newer style with 700C rims and move on from the 27. But I will first give new pads a try. However the thought of being able to go to a bike store and purchase tires is sweet. the S-7 my Schwinn has can be a PITA

700c is 622mm and the 26" x 1-3/8" Raleigh rim is 590mm. That's a bigger wheel, not smaller so you will not need a longer-reach brake -the braking area of the rim will be closer to the top of the fork and wheelstays. You will need a brake that will have a shorter reach. In fact, it will be so much closer that you will need to lose the original fenders and replace them with a thin modern fender if any will fit at all (or just go without). If one is going with 700c they might as well go with new modern brakes as well. By the time you replace wheels, tires, tubes, brakes, cables (might as well do levers too at this point that match the leverage ratio of the new brakes) and fenders you've probably put more money into the bike than you could spend on a new bike -and ruined the whole character, feel, and value of a "vintage bike" in the process. But that is a personal decision.

As for "availability" is concerned, many LBS's are carrying at least one brand of 590mm tires as there are tons of these old bikes around. I'm not so worried about availability as I am about price and selection at a LBS (unless it is one of those fast-food LBS's that only carries the 20 most common parts which I wouldn't go to anyhow). And there is always Amazon. Tires show up at your front door in 5-6 days. I can personally deal with that wait as tires don't self-destruct in a day and (like many people on this list) I own more than one bike ;)

^^^^^^^^ +1 To All of the Above ^^^^^^^^^^^^
 

:D Yes indeed.

My own current Raleigh:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=186046http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=186048http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=186049http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=186045

But here's the catch. I'm retired, I do all my own mechanical work
(car as well as bicycle), and I'm not really all that tightly wrapped.

So draw your own conclusions in your own case. I will say that the
Retro Raleigh Post Apocalyptic Transportation Module has served
me well and is much more fun than going to Trader Joe's in a car.
While not theft proof, there is usually something shinier parked
next to me in the rack, so thus far it has been there for the return
trip.

Is this a great country or what?

Regards,
Mike Larmer