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Build-a-long freewheel!!!! Photo heavy

Old 02-02-11, 11:50 AM
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I'd order the SPA2. My guess is the pins are longer.



The tool is just a gauge which verifies spacing. Critical when building an Ultra Spaced freewheel and all your parts are mixed up!
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Old 02-02-11, 03:43 PM
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What have I started here? Your all rebuilding freewheels, and it's not that hard is it?
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Old 02-02-11, 04:40 PM
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Not at all. The most tedious part is to pick up and placing all those tiny ball bearings.
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Old 02-02-11, 04:40 PM
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So easy a little girl could do it.
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Old 02-02-11, 05:17 PM
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Now that is awesome...... I remember those days, as mine are grown.... Enjoy that little doll, cause they really do grow up fast. Reminds me of a song (Don't Blink).
Originally Posted by sailorbenjamin
So easy a little girl could do it.
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Old 02-02-11, 05:32 PM
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Now I have a good reason to pull mine and check them out! I never opened the freewheel, but I spent a lot of time years ago, swapping around gears for custom ratios my buddies didn't have...
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Old 02-02-11, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by zjrog
Now I have a good reason to pull mine and check them out! I never opened the freewheel, but I spent a lot of time years ago, swapping around gears for custom ratios my buddies didn't have...
Speaking of custom gearing, did you see the freewheel I built for tugrul's snow SS?





That's a 18-18-18-18-19 if you are counting!
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Old 02-02-11, 05:56 PM
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Could you recommend a half step/granny combo to go with that? I was thinking maybe 39-40-40?
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Old 02-02-11, 06:29 PM
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No, but I could do a 41-40-39 for a really flat land triple. And for good measure lets pair that with a 15-16-17-18-19 freewheel.
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Old 02-02-11, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by WNG
Nice post and pics! Although it's an unnecessary step in regards to freewheel maintenance, it's nice to have the reference for those of us who are curious or obsessed to crack into one.

I had to open up a Shimano freehub that was in sad shape. The steps are very similar. Given the reduced size of a freehub, tapping loose the lockring/race was more constricting. But the insides were about the same. So if you must disassemble one, no fear in trying. I wish I had taken photos, so I could have added them here.
I just finnished a rebuild of a Singapore-made Shimano freewheel. I noticed a couple of differences than on the OP's SunTour freewheel. The Pawls are held to the inner body with a single circular sprinclip, instead of the separate, pin held, pawl springs of the SunTour. Another important difference is in re-assembly; the way the ball bearing races are made on the inner (i.e. the set closest to the hub flange) group requires that the ball bearings be placed in the freewheel core, rather than putting them into the inside of the freewheel. I couldn't get the freewheel inner core to fit into the cogset using the OP's method. I switched their location to the inner core' s bearing race and the inner core dropped in perfectly! This Shimano Freewheel also had two very thin, foil-like shims sandwhiching a much thicker shim, under the outer cone.
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Old 02-23-13, 11:25 PM
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So, I just got a NOS SunTour New Winner that I want to put on an old road bike. It occurs to me that even though it's "new" the grease inside isn't, so this thread inspired me to open it up, clean it, and grease the bearings. Do folks here think that's a good idea, or is it better to just leave it alone? I like to take stuff apart anyway, so I'm inclined to dig into it. I picked it up because it has an unusual 12-13-14-16-18-30-32 configuration, which if I don't like I can change out the cogs. My current one tops out at 14, and on flats and downhills I've always wanted a little more. Anyway, my main question I guess is, if I just put it on and start riding, how much do I risk wearing down the bearings, not to mention having extra friction to deal with? Also, if anyone has done this to a New Winner, any tips or warnings would be appreciated. Glad I found this thread... Thanks!
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Old 02-24-13, 04:13 AM
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Yes, I would clean the internals and regrease the bearings. Also add a drop of good machine oil to the pawl pivot and rub oil on the ratchet teeth.

A New Winner is rather straight forward. Thread it onto a hub. Holding the the wheel in your lap, while leaning it against the bench, use a punch and hammer to remove the retaining ring (reversed threads so strike down on the hole on your right). Have a plastic bowl ready to catch the bearings.

Before the retaining ring threads off, move the wheel to a horizontal position. Once the ring is off, place the bowl over the freewheel and hold it in place. Flip the wheel over 180 degrees and catch all the bearings and the outer part of the freewheel in the bowl.

I spray everything with WD40 to begin the cleaning process. After soaking, go to a hot water bath with Dawn dish detergent and a toothbrush. Dry everything in an oven at about 200F.

Grease the races (I use synthetic Super Lube grease), add the balls to the races, oil as mentioned above, and reassemble. You will want to hit the retaining ring with the punch and hammer to really tighten it up. This might require a second person with a chain whip to hold freewheel steady while it is threaded to the hub.

Best of luck on your rebuild.
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Old 02-26-13, 10:54 PM
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Thanks PastorBob! I'll post pix after I crack it open.
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Old 02-26-13, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
Yes, I would clean the internals and regrease the bearings. Also add a drop of good machine oil to the pawl pivot and rub oil on the ratchet teeth.

A New Winner is rather straight forward. Thread it onto a hub. Holding the the wheel in your lap, while leaning it against the bench, use a punch and hammer to remove the retaining ring (reversed threads so strike down on the hole on your right). Have a plastic bowl ready to catch the bearings.
You sure, PB? The New Winner freewheels that I played with way-back-when had a cone-and-locknut bearing adjustment. There was a special double-ended two-prong tool that engaged either the cone (for adjustment) or the locknut (to, uh, lock the adjustment). I spent many wonderful hours overhauling my New Winner freewheel.

The adjustment is mentioned in this scan (bottom right):
(From https://www.yellowjersey.org/stfw.html)
I'm trying to find a photo of the tool.
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Old 02-26-13, 11:52 PM
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Found a photo of the adjustment tool (on Ebay):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suntour-Free...-/151002384971
(Maybe I'm confusing New Winner and New Winner Pro?)

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Old 02-27-13, 02:06 AM
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Aha, thenother interesting thread. I wish I had seen this last month, when I cleaned up my old 5-speed Regina Corse G.S. (Gran Sport). But I did do a pretty good job of flushing it out good with Tri-Flow, and I cleaned a LOT of crud from between the cogs, and it has a beautiful sound now, very distinctive. You guys have me thinking hard about taking it apart, to clean & regrease it fully, but I'd really like to see pics of that first, for a Regina, just in case. I also have a Suntour/Maeda 7-speed, that looks unused practically, so I might look at that one closer first. That would be the smarter one to use, but the Regina just has a lot of cool factor going on. BTW, I thought this was going to be about building a custom freewheel, like Sheldon talked about some. I see pastorbobnlnh has removed the cogs on his, so obviously he "could" have used a custom gear range.
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Old 02-27-13, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by spacemanz
Aha, another interesting thread. I wish I had seen this last month, when I cleaned up my old 5-speed Regina Corse G.S. (Gran Sport). But I did do a pretty good job of flushing it out good with Tri-Flow, and I cleaned a LOT of crud from between the cogs, and it has a beautiful sound now, very distinctive. You guys have me thinking hard about taking it apart, to clean & regrease it fully, but I'd really like to see pics of that first, for a Regina, just in case.

I see pastorbobnlnh has removed the cogs on his, so obviously he "could" have used a custom gear range.
Did you notice my avatar pic?

Regina Corsa pictures. This one belongs to Frank the Welder (ftwelder).






A challenge with the Corsa is keeping the pawls compressed while inserting the inner body into the outer body. To overcome this, I have invented the patent pending Pastor Bob Pawl Insertion Compression technique, or PBPIC (pronounced "Pee Bee Pik").



Basically, I use dental floss ribbon to tie down (but not knotted) the pawls, pass the ends through the top of the outer body, and once the bodies are mated and in place, gently pull the floss out by one end. Also works well on some Atoms and Maillard freewheels.

And did I hear "Regina" and "custom gear range" in the same post?

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Old 02-27-13, 01:45 PM
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Holy snikeys, I better be careful what I ask for, huh? Thanks very much, for the pics, that helps a lot, especially in knowing what to expect. It seems to me, that this would be a good Saturday job, when you just sit down & do it till it's done, "carefully", LOL.
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Old 03-27-13, 12:38 AM
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Hey, I finally got around to working on this New Winner, and here's what I found:
First, Jeff Wills, you are correct. The NW is definitely not like the others when it comes to opening it up. Thanks for the Yellow Jersey link, and especially for that pic of the tool - that explains a lot. Bottom line for me is, I'm not willing to pay more for the tool than I did for the freewheel, so although I gave a shot at trying to whack it loose with a flat screwdriver (a punch won't work on this one), I stopped when it didn't loosen up right away. Especially since the bearings are adjustable (can anyone explain to me why this would be desirable in a freewheel?) I didn't want to risk making it so tight (or loose) as to screw it up. I can actually see the bearings through the space indicated by the arrows, so now my question is, should I try to squeeze some grease in there, or should I use oil? The later Winner Pro had a hole in the body, and Suntour recommended using oil to lube the bearings, but I'm not sure about this one. All advice appreciated!
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Old 03-27-13, 04:55 AM
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Oil is only a temporary solution for a freewheel. It can get you by, and if you use it frequently it will do the job. But grease is how they were spec'ed and grease is what should be used.

From what you can see, what does the condition of the bearings look like? If any look dull, tarnished, or rusted, they should be replaced.

Why adjustable bearings? Who knows!?! They are a PITA to work on. Even with two sets of the silly Suntour wrenches. And they are not easy to adjust perfectly.

In a sense, all freewheels have adjustable bearings, it is just managed with spacers which sit outside of the outer bearing race on the inner body. The normal retaining ring holding the outer to the inner bodies, which is also a bearing race locks these spacers in place.

Regina and Sachs tend to use 1 or 2 thicker spacers, sort of like rings. Other Suntours, Maillairds, older Reginas, and Atoms, use 2-3 thin flat spacers. Shimanos use a combination and I've seen as many as 6 spacers, some of which seem as thin as aluminum foil. The thinnest Shimano spacers are almost impossible not to deform a little.

You can see the thinner spacers on Regina Corsa in this picture. 2 are sitting on the large cog in the upper right. One is near the bottom center-left.
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Old 03-27-13, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
Oil is only a temporary solution for a freewheel. It can get you by, and if you use it frequently it will do the job. But grease is how they were spec'ed and grease is what should be used.

From what you can see, what does the condition of the bearings look like? If any look dull, tarnished, or rusted, they should be replaced.

Why adjustable bearings? Who knows!?! They are a PITA to work on. Even with two sets of the silly Suntour wrenches. And they are not easy to adjust perfectly.
Well... the New Winner Pro was relatively easy to adjust as long as it was still mounted on the wheel. The adjustment tool piloted on the hub's axle, making it easy to loosen & tighten the locknut and adjusting cone.

I would run mine with a layer of grease, usually the light white lithium stuff we had around the Schwinn shop. It worked OK, and the pawls were just barely audible. Nowadays I run Phil Wood oil in my Shimano cassette bodies and they're just as quiet.
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Old 04-05-13, 11:14 AM
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Well, I managed to find adjustment tool (thanks for the tip Jeff!), but hasn't arrived yet. When it does, I'll post some pix. Meantime I couldn't really wait to try it out, so I put as much oil as I could get into it, wiped it down, and tried it out, and so far I love it! When the tool arrives though, I'll strip it down and do it right. Incidentally the 6-speed Perfect that I took off the bike was super easy to open up with the Park Tool SPA-2, which was kind of a surprise since it's 27 years old!
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Old 04-07-13, 02:46 AM
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Great thread! Thx to all who have contributed.

Now my question: Now that we have directions and inspiration about getting these things apart and back together, does anyone have suggestions about how to shim or otherwise rebuild a long freewheel as a single cog freewheel for an Single Speed conversion. Ideally one would be able to place the selected cog within a mm or two of where your chain-line is predicted to go.

I've see the SS enthusiasts people up "how to" pics and stuff on threads, but I remained confused. And, it seems that the pioneers in the efforts were having issues. I suppose one could grind down cogs on the grinder, but that seems like a LOT of risky grinding.
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Old 04-07-13, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
Speaking of custom gearing, did you see the freewheel I built for tugrul's snow SS? That's a 18-18-18-18-19 if you are counting!
Is this a dumb question? Why 18-18-18-18-19? It's not a joke is it? Don't worry, I can take the pain
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Old 04-07-13, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Lenton58
Is this a dumb question? Why 18-18-18-18-19? It's not a joke is it? Don't worry, I can take the pain
Sort of a joke. But serious as well. He wanted to accomplish what you mention above about chain line. I would have used five 18T cogs but I only had four.
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