Amesja

I bet a sawzall with a good bi-metalic blade would go right through a spindle in no time -a minute or two. If that isn't fast enough then get the angle grinder. 30-45 seconds max. No worse than a U-lock.

noglider 

No, I strongly agree with JohnDThompson. Much easier to get the cotters out than to cut the spindle. Besides, the cotters are supposed to be disposable, and it's a shame to cut the spindle.

You have to hit the cotter harder. I agree with the advice to use a punch. Support the spindle with something very sturdy.

Get a bigger hammer. I'm serious. This is the best way to hit harder.

I had this difficulty a couple of years ago, and I thought it would be the end of me. I drilled through the cotter, and it was still difficult to remove. I banged and banged and banged, and it came out after a while. I hold the punch with a vise grip so I wouldn't bang my hand.

If you have a neighbor who owns a sledge hammer, he might also be the kind of guy who likes to use it, so let him try it. See who's the more macho guy. OK, I'm joking now, but you get the idea.

jonwvara 

+1. And the Bikesmith cotter press makes them almost as easy to deal with as cotterless cranks. Consider the cost of the press to be part of the cost of the first cottter-crank equipped bike you buy.

auchencrow

+1.
I used a big hammer and drift to remove a particularly stubborn cotter from a crank, that the PO had removed by buzzing through the spindle .

There would have been no way that a cotter press could have removed it, because the cotter was peened over.

- It is not that I recommend a hammer over a cotter press (there is too much risk of missing) - but I think that sometimes a hammer is needed.

The experience made me a believer in Sheldon's methods for removing stubborn cotters.

jonwvara 

I think the overall lesson here is this: Don't be the first person to use a hammer. If the cotters have already been hammered and damaged, well, okay, you're probably out of luck. Get out the drill, the drifts, the progressively bigger and bigger hammers, etc.
But if they HAVEN'T been hammered, don't be the one to start down that road! Get the press, f'rchrissake! You can go through $50 worth of frustration really quickly when trying to hammer out cotters, even if you don't do $50 worth of damage (or more) to your own body or the bike.

bibliobob

+1 on Mark Stonich's press. I don't own it, but a friend does. The cotter pins on my Cinelli Mod. B came out with very little effort, and with the pins apparently intact and re-usable. It would've been much, much more difficult without it...

And, +1 to the beauty of cottered cranks. If you're a believer in the low Q factor approach, they can also have a narrower tread and perform better as well?

Amesja

Do you really think that a $55 (+ $7 S&H) tool is a necessity for everyone who has even one cottered bike and works on it himself? I'm on the fence myself. I tend to buy stuff that I don't really need -especially tools. I love tools. But the hammer method has been working for me so far and the thought of buying a fairly expensive single-use tool makes me fear that I'll have buyer's remorse in the future.

As for missing with the hammer, like auchencrow described, yes it is a possibility but some of us are more skilled with the use of a hammer than others. When you've swung one for a living and hammered all-day/every-day you get better at it. Most people are scary-scary with a hammer so I understand the reluctance to hit very hard when they miss a significant portion of the time the target they are hitting. The harder they swing the more chance they have of missing -and you have to hit the cotter HARD to make it move. Anything less than HARD isn't going to do it and will just mushroom it.

But I'm still on that fence with the press. I WANT it. But the price seems to be the issue. If it was <$50 I'd jump at it but something in me is a little bit offended over spending that much for what seems like is just a simple glorified C-clamp. If I had my own mill I know what I'd be making as a side hobby! If people are so willing to spend over $60 for a C-press with 2 moving pieces they'd jump at one I sold for less than $50! The cottor press is more than 10% of the cost of an entire mini-mill. If I'm willing to spend $62 on the press I might as well take that money and just spend the $499 on a tool where I can make my OWN.

Wotan

Bingo! The Bikesmith cotter press works fantastically on non-driveside crankarms and on driveside arms with a reasonable BCD. But for the 50.4 bcd 5 pin sets, like most Magistroni, Stronglight, BSA and Williams cranks it's almost totally useless. The chainring gets in the way of the press and means you can't line it up squarely. I've bent a couple of cotters using the press on these DS arms and created way more work for myself. And I've scratched a chainring too.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I suppose I could source an 8" bolt and grind a bit of metal off the body of the press to clear the chainring...


Also, I'm unashamed in my feelings for steel cottered cranks. Love 'em!!

rhm

I don't have the Bikesmith Cotter Press. I have been wanting one for some time, but haven't had enough trouble with cotters (I only have them on about ten of my bikes) to justify the expense.

I picked up a drill press vise at a yard sale a few years ago. It set me back a couple bucks and looks very much like this:
A variety of similar things (including the one in the picture) are available new.

This, in combination with a socket, gets close enough to the arm that I haven't had any trouble. I put the socket on the movable jaw of the vise, so the fixed end is on the cotter, then tighten it up as far as I can with just my hand, no cheater bar. The cotter usually pops out without much trouble. If the cotter doesn't budge under that pressure, I give the vise a good sharp tap with the hammer. I've ruined a few cotters this way, but haven't had to drill one.

Amesja

I just figured out that my motorcycle chain press works very well to remove and replace crank cotters. It doesn't have the correct "dish" that the front of the Bikesmith press has on the threaded boltk so it can deform the cotter at that first thread a little bit if it is stubborn and doesn't want to come out. But it works just fine if you don't care if there is a possibility of needing to replace the cotters. My LBS sells cotters for $2 each so what's the big deal other than the fact that they are not the same thread as the OEM Raleigh parts and you can't reuse the R-branded cap nut? I would Imagine that even the Bikesmith press might damage the thread of the cotter if it was a really tough one to get out. That's a lot of force being driven onto the end of a skinny bolt.

To use the chain tool I just put a 1/2" nut over the end of the cotter instead of a socket. Sure, this tool costs more than the the Bikesmith press but it's a tool I've already got and needed for pressing and peening motorcycle clipless master links.

jonwvara 

I also like the look of cottered cranks, if they're right for the bike.
But why do you "always" file the cotters? To adjust them so the the same amount protrudes on each crankarm? When you talk about removing and installing them several times, is that just to get them to look the same on both sides? Is that purely a matter of aesthetics? My understanding is that the orientation of the cranks--that is, whether they're 180 degrees to one another--is not affected by how deeply the cotters are driven in, but only by whether the angles on both cotters are precisely the same.

noglider 

jonwvara, I've found that most cotters need filing, because they don't go in deep enough. So installing them involves doing what Grand Bois describes.

Grand Bois

Purely aesthetics and sometimes to get the nut to thread on far enough. I agree with your last sentence.

Amesja

I've never file new cotters. I don't care if they are not 100% even as far as how far they stick out as long as the cranks are 180-degrees apart and you can get the nuts on. Perhaps I'm a hack

velo-orange

A Die grinder should do the trick- notch the arm in a couple places instead of trying to cut through the spindle.
Those things go through U locks in 30 seconds.

rhm

I missed something. What trick are we trying to do?

Amesja

I think he's getting back on topic or something with cutting of the spindle mentioned way back at the top.

This would be the fasted method!


Great for U-locks too!

JohnDThompson 

I suspect the Bikesmith cotter press is still cheaper, though.

rhm

Yes, but why use muscle power to elegantly remove the cotter pin, when there's a machine that will destroy the whole thing with brute force?

Amesja

That seriously made me snort out loud hard enough to scare the cat.