Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Help me identify my Ti frame??? Please

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Help me identify my Ti frame??? Please

Old 03-01-11, 10:22 PM
  #1  
evan7seven
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Help me identify my Ti frame??? Please

Hello, This is my first post on this site but have been coming here for years to read up on bike knowledge from all the gurus. So, I have this Ti frame that is a mystery to everyone who has seen it. I'll post pics once I have a decent camera, but will try to describe it as best as I can for now.

Serial number off bottom bracket G L.7924
The "G" is a smaller font, but capitalized like the "L". The font size of the "L" and the numbers are the same. And the "." is actually mid way up the L and the 7, it isn't a period.

It was sold to me from a mechanic at a shop who could only tell me that is was apparently made for a rider on the Lemond team sometime probably in the mid to late 90s. This rider couldn't race for whatever reason (I forget if the mechanic even knew) and was sold to him new. He road it for a while and sold to me. It has "Lemond" stamped into the rear drop outs, and has no other markings or decals. It was suppose to be painted by the team though it never was because it wasn't raced. The seat tube has a slight bend near the bottom bracket, but the rest of the geometry seems fairly traditional. The triangle for the rear brake has holes drilled in it, there are braze-ons for down tube shifters or barrel adjusters, a nipple of a pump at the head tube (which is weird for a race bike), and no eyelets for racks or fenders (which makes sense for a race bike). The tubes are not polished Ti, and they feel to be triple butted.

Any ideas, or other descriptions I should put up?

Thank you to anyone who helps
evan7seven is offline  
Old 03-02-11, 04:44 AM
  #2  
ftwelder
Senior Member
 
ftwelder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: vermont
Posts: 3,091

Bikes: Many

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Hi, we will need tons of good pics. At least one from each side showing the whole frame (with a plain background, in good lighting) and detail shots all the tube joints and furniture.

A long serial number sequence and production stamped dropouts are not consistent with the "custom made for a team rider" theory but is still quite possible.
ftwelder is offline  
Old 03-02-11, 06:08 AM
  #3  
KonAaron Snake 
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 17,125

Bikes: Two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1219 Post(s)
Liked 208 Times in 118 Posts
There was a Lemond titanium model as I recall...

If I recall correctly, Lemond was using Merlins for his team...but what you describe isn't a Merlin. The Merlins have the serial number on the drop out.

Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 03-02-11 at 08:13 AM.
KonAaron Snake is offline  
Old 03-02-11, 08:13 AM
  #4  
KonAaron Snake 
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 17,125

Bikes: Two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1219 Post(s)
Liked 208 Times in 118 Posts
Found this...hope it helps:

"Greg LeMond's Team Z Merlin/Kellog

I attended the ’90 Tour de France and saw that at the end of the event the teams were selling off the race bikes in Paris. I had no money left after three weeks of following the Tour and could not get one, but thought that it would be a nice acquisition later. Greg LeMond later retired and I started searching for one of his bikes. His Dad and brother in law had some they were selling for what was very serious money to me and I passed on the notion…again. Then in ’93 I saw a small ad in Velo News for a bike parts import company called Renegade Sports Ltd. that had a sentence at the bottom saying that one of the Team Z bikes that LeMond rode was for sale. I called, finally pulled the trigger, and bought it.

The fellow who ran the company, Brian Searchinger, told me the story of how he came to acquire the bike. Bob LeMond first sold the bike to Werner Bautista in Florida as part of a deal for Bautista to became a distributor of Greg LeMond clothing. Searchinger had done some PR/advertising work for Bautista and took the bike as part payment for his services.

I later contacted Merlin to get the history of the bike, got some information, and was referred to Tom Kellog. Tom was most helpful and related that he designed the titanium frame in ’90 for Greg LeMond at his request. Merlin made it. The first two bikes were shipped to Greg in November of 1990 for his own use. My bike is one of those two bikes according to Tom. In the early Spring of ’91 Kellog shipped more titanium bikes to France for Team Z to use. They were first raced in the Giro. A total of 16 bikes were made for the team (all by Merlin).

The plan was to then make a titanium production bike to be sold by the first LeMond Bicycle company. Bob LeMond decided, apparently for economic reasons, not to go with Merlin as the supplier of the production bikes and went with Sandvick instead. The first LeMond Bicycle company later went out of business and LeMond bike company #2 started up with Brian Searchinger as one of Greg LeMond's partners. That company went away when the Trek deal was put together relatively shortly thereafter.

I have a bill of sale and affidavit of authenticity from Searchinger and emails from Merlin and Tom Kellog on the history of the bike.

It has hung on the wall in my law office for years."

I'd research Sandvick as a potential match. I really doubt what you describe is a Merlin and like Frank said, doubt it's a true team bike.
KonAaron Snake is offline  
Old 03-02-11, 08:21 AM
  #5  
KonAaron Snake 
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 17,125

Bikes: Two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1219 Post(s)
Liked 208 Times in 118 Posts
Also see this link:

https://www.mombat.org/Merlin.htm

Contact Tom kellog at Spectrum to find out for sure, but I can almost say 100% it's not a Merlin and was never a Team bike. Photos would help and might prevent us from wasting TK's time.

Is the BB shell standard or designed for the goofy grease guard press in BBs? I THINK Merlin was still using the pressin shell at that point, though I've heard some extra lights were made without it...and if I recall, the extra light began in 92' or 93'...around the year Lemond used Merlins for Z Team.
KonAaron Snake is offline  
Old 03-02-11, 02:20 PM
  #6  
GrayJay
Senior Member
 
GrayJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: EagleRiver AK
Posts: 1,254
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Doing a bit of reasearch, it seems that Lemond was really quite a *S*L*U*T when it came to titanium!
First had a fling with Merlin&Kellog for team Z bikes around 1991/1992. Sounds as if Lemonds demands for free Ti frames for team use quickly outstripped the resources of tiny Merlin Metalworks.

Next, he briefly outsources his production retail Lemond Bikes to Sandvik (Primaily a titanium tubing suppiler, but they apparently also built complete frames for others to market).

Next Lemond had an affair withwith Clark-Kent as a titanium frame supplier both for his retail brandname and, most notably C-K suppled a few experimental rear suspension titanium road bikes for team use at Paris-Roubaix and the cobble classics in 1994. C-K went bankrupt in 1994 so produciton ceased.

Around 1994 he started selling re-labeled lightspeed frames under his retail brand. He also had a line of lightspeed built MTB Ti frames as early as 1992 when he had Bob Roll racing offroad for the Lemond brand.

Finally, after the Trek merger, Trek had merlin founder Gary Helfrich setup a small internal group to produce Ti frames for the LeMond brand.

At least 5 documented Ti suppliers, that guy really got around.

Last edited by GrayJay; 03-02-11 at 02:26 PM.
GrayJay is offline  
Old 03-02-11, 02:22 PM
  #7  
Picchio Special
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lancaster County, PA
Posts: 5,060

Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
I seem to recall a Kellogg-built Ti bike on ebay around the holidays. Pics might still be searchable.
Picchio Special is offline  
Old 03-02-11, 02:39 PM
  #8  
KonAaron Snake 
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 17,125

Bikes: Two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1219 Post(s)
Liked 208 Times in 118 Posts
Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
Doing a bit of reasearch, it seems that Lemond was really quite a *S*L*U*T when it came to titanium!
First had a fling with Merlin&Kellog for team Z bikes around 1991/1992. Sounds as if Lemonds demands for free Ti frames for team use quickly outstripped the resources of tiny Merlin Metalworks.

Next, he briefly outsources his production retail Lemond Bikes to Sandvik (Primaily a titanium tubing suppiler, but they apparently also built complete frames for others to market).

Next Lemond had an affair withwith Clark-Kent as a titanium frame supplier both for his retail brandname and, most notably C-K suppled a few experimental rear suspension titanium road bikes for team use at Paris-Roubaix and the cobble classics in 1994. C-K went bankrupt in 1994 so produciton ceased.

Around 1994 he started selling re-labeled lightspeed frames under his retail brand. He also had a line of lightspeed built MTB Ti frames as early as 1992 when he had Bob Roll racing offroad for the Lemond brand.

Finally, after the Trek merger, Trek had merlin founder Gary Helfrich setup a small internal group to produce Ti frames for the LeMond brand.

At least 5 documented Ti suppliers, that guy really got around.
I didn't know about Litespeed! I figured Sandvick was the best place to start because of the time line suggested by the seller's claims of the bike being a team model.
KonAaron Snake is offline  
Old 03-02-11, 09:02 PM
  #9  
buldogge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,684
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I almost bought one of the Clark Kent frames last year...there is a thread on this forum with a coupla pics somewhere.

Here's one (note it was re-stickered with Trek era decals):

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Lemond..jpg (5.6 KB, 159 views)
buldogge is offline  
Old 03-03-11, 11:17 AM
  #10  
evan7seven
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sorry I'm new to this forum and thought I would get email notifications if anyone responded to this post. Since I didn't I thought maybe it didn't actually post, but now I know it did and you guys are really showing interest in helping me. THANK YOU.

I'm going to try to get a camera tonight and post pics, but if I can't I'll at least use my phone with the best lighting I can.

Again thank you so much for helping me.

As for the one BB question it is standard threaded 1.37x24
evan7seven is offline  
Old 03-03-11, 08:21 PM
  #11  
RobbieTunes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,374 Times in 888 Posts
Douglas offered some Ti frames, made by various other folks.

Are there "hoods" over the rear dropouts?
Are the rear stays curved?
Where are the rear brake cable guides?
Does it have a braze-on tab?
Does it have DT shifter bosses?
Does it have bottle cage holes?

These are some of the questions that can help.
Of course, pics would answer all that.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 03-05-11, 12:33 AM
  #12  
dnomel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I was tryng to id one like in this link https://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/gal...geViewsIndex=1 I think it had a serial number like what you describe. Frame sounds a little different but maybe early litespeed.
dnomel is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
deacon mark
Classic & Vintage
1
05-05-18 07:04 PM
abellanti
Classic & Vintage
7
05-31-16 08:45 AM
Cool Steel
Classic & Vintage
25
01-25-12 05:46 AM
look171
Road Cycling
3
01-07-11 10:31 AM
BengeBoy
Professional Cycling For the Fans
243
07-16-10 08:40 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.