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Forgotten vintage racing bike sees daylight after 33 years in loft

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Forgotten vintage racing bike sees daylight after 33 years in loft

Old 03-05-11, 03:15 PM
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busboy1303
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Forgotten vintage racing bike sees daylight after 33 years in loft

Evening people. As you can see fom my status I'm brand new. Stumbled across this site a while back, found it really interesting and so signed up.
As the title of this thread suggests I've recently unearthed my grandad's old racing bike from dad's loft with a view to resurecting it. It's been up there since 1978 when he passed away. I was only 6 months old at the time so don't have a clue about it's history or pedigree. I know he used to compete in time trials on it, always rode it with a fixed rear wheel and used it to replace a circa 1947 Bates bicycle complete with diadrant forks (which my dad still rides). The paintwork looks really worn so who knows how old it was when it was put in storage. The word "Temple" is visible on the down tube and I can just make out the words "bicycles" and "York" on the frame above the forks. Presumably it was made by Temple Bicycles of York but I've googled the name, searched through various old cycling mags and come up with nothing. I guess the question I'm asking is - Has anybody heard of one of these before?







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Old 03-05-11, 03:22 PM
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Nice pics & bike. Great story.

Welcome to the forum.

Better pics of lugs and dropouts helps most with identifying
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Old 03-05-11, 03:24 PM
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Looks very cool! Sorry, I know nothing about it though...
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Old 03-05-11, 03:26 PM
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Hate to disappoint, but it looks like it might be gas pipe.
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Old 03-05-11, 03:32 PM
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Welcome to C&V Busboy. - That looks interesting and I wouldn't be disappointed at all to find that regardless of the tubing.

- Plans to build it up?
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Old 03-05-11, 03:33 PM
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Looks solid to me. Could be 1020, or 2030. But it could be nicer, and old high ten frames were nice too.
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Old 03-05-11, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rat fink View Post
Hate to disappoint, but it looks like it might be gas pipe.
Shouldn't think so, Rat fink - From the lugs, pump pegs and head badge style (what's left of it), it's a 1950's or so clubman's frame, hand built and looks like there might be a 531 transfer or its remains at the top of the seat tube. Don't be misled by the stamped drop outs, even quite high quality frames of the era had these with no gear hanger. Similar in overall style to my 1953 Claud Butler Silver Jubilee - it's NOT a Claud Butler, but a really nice looking frame most probably built by one of the half-dozen to twenty artisan frame builders that seem to have been present in English towns and cities at the time. Hope the OP posts more detailed photos, I'd love to test this impression further.
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Old 03-05-11, 03:36 PM
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very little about them in the CR list archives, but a couple chaps remember the name (and one is Norris Lockley, who occasionally posts here):
"In the '60s the bike to ride in Clifton was a Wally Hargreaves with many
TT records to their credit, in the '50s Arnold Elsegood's Minster was the
bike from York, another less known lightweight was a Temple."
Both refer to the brand as high quality, so I think the tubing will be better than gaspipe.
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Old 03-05-11, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by auchencrow View Post
Welcome to C&V Busboy. - That looks interesting and I wouldn't be disappointed at all to find that regardless of the tubing.
I agree. It looks like it has a lot of character, but while the pedigree is questionable, it is undoubtedly cool.
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Old 03-05-11, 03:55 PM
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Thanks for the positive feedback so far. I know it looks rough. Here's another picture I forgot to add earlier.
Yes of course I'm going to build it up, I'm curious to know what it rides like. Stored with the frame was a huge suitcase I can hardly lift, rammed with old parts including a Brooks saddle, and several wheels. I'll keep you posted of my progress if it's of interest.



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Old 03-05-11, 04:10 PM
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Interesting bike, made even more so because it is an ancestral bicycle with some interesting history.

The lower lug looks like it suffers from a lack of proper fill or separation on the drive side so would have a frame builder take a close look at things.

The lack of cast dropouts is not an indication of an inferior frame... many high quality bikes came with stamped rear dropouts and the lack of an integral hangar may just point to it being made in an era before derailleurs were common.

Many a fixed gear model had regular horizontal dropouts and the fender mounts point to it being an all rounder that could have been equipped with fenders for riding in wet weather or winter training... this is very British.
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Old 03-05-11, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Oldpeddaller View Post
Shouldn't think so, Rat fink - From the lugs, pump pegs and head badge style (what's left of it), it's a 1950's or so clubman's frame, hand built and looks like there might be a 531 transfer or its remains at the top of the seat tube. Don't be misled by the stamped drop outs, even quite high quality frames of the era had these with no gear hanger.
That makes sense. I admittedly know very little about English frames. When the OP was talking about it having been stored since the 70's, I took that to mean that it was made around that time, even though it had the look of a 50's era frame.
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Old 03-05-11, 04:22 PM
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Yes, keep us posted! it's Tru-wel tubing very popular on Carlton, Sun as well as other makes. Tru-wel was part of the TI group, but may have had no connection with Reynolds (unclear) and there are 3 grades that are known (the 40-Wel being the top grade and probably a chrome-moly steel alloy, there also was a 205 and 201...any numbers visible on your decal?)
Just for grins here's a pic of a later Tru-wel tubing decal for either 205 or 201 from a 1971 Carlton "ten"
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
14.jpg (85.0 KB, 64 views)

Last edited by unworthy1; 03-05-11 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 03-05-11, 04:25 PM
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I've talked to a couple different framebuilders (one from that era) who bemoan the modern cast lugs and express an appreciation for the stamped, rolled and welded lugs. Apparently the stamped and welded lugs exhibit much better flex characteristics and are more forgiving of heat-treatment, which kind of makes sense.

Looking forward to your build diary and PIREP ("Pilot report")on this!
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Old 03-05-11, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rat fink View Post
That makes sense. I admittedly know very little about English frames. When the OP was talking about it having been stored since the 70's, I took that to mean that it was made around that time, even though it had the look of a 50's era frame.
Well I jumped to one conclusion too many; the frame tubing is Tru-Wel, according to the remains of the transfer on the seat tube. Carlton used it on a lot of their models in the 1960's. Not quite 531, but decent lightweight tubing that should give a good ride and maybe just a little more exotic? I still think it's probably a late 1950's hand built - and very nice, too!
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Old 03-05-11, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rat fink View Post
Hate to disappoint, but it looks like it might be gas pipe.
No, the British especially were late to the "if it ain't Campagnolo dropouts, it ain't s*** party". Stamped dropouts on a 50s-60s British frame does not at all mean low quality. I imagine they were catering to the financial depressed riders who needed something less costly and more flexible in components.
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Old 03-05-11, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
No, the British especially were late to the "if it ain't Campagnolo dropouts, it ain't s*** party". Stamped dropouts on a 50s-60s British frame does not at all mean low quality. I imagine they were catering to the financial depressed riders who needed something less costly and more flexible in components.
and Holdsworthy had the exclusive distribution for Campagnolo in the UK for many years, so if you weren't on a Holdsworth (or Claud Butler) you weren't going to have those dropouts either, unless you dealt with them.
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Old 03-05-11, 05:57 PM
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I suggest looking on the "Classic Lightweights UK" website. I had a quick look but couldn't find a 'Temple'. I think their website is very good although I seldom go there.

I think you're doing the right thing by researching your grandfather's frame before you do anything to bring it back to life - well done.

Best of luck,

Gary.
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Old 03-05-11, 06:11 PM
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great story ... this is the type of bike i love sounds like you have some period parts to go with it. see any serial numbers or markings under crank. hope you dont plan a repaint that patina and character is hard to come by
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Old 03-05-11, 06:32 PM
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I want to see the parts suitcase!
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Old 03-05-11, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kccomet View Post
great story ... this is the type of bike i love sounds like you have some period parts to go with it. see any serial numbers or markings under crank. hope you dont plan a repaint that patina and character is hard to come by
Indeed. A repaint would destroy the character of that frame!

Let's see what's in that suitcase -- I suspect you will end up with a truly memorable bike!
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Old 03-06-11, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by mazdaspeed View Post
I want to see the parts suitcase!
Same, could be some good parts in there!!!
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Old 03-06-11, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
No, the British especially were late to the "if it ain't Campagnolo dropouts, it ain't s*** party". Stamped dropouts on a 50s-60s British frame does not at all mean low quality. I imagine they were catering to the financial depressed riders who needed something less costly and more flexible in components.
Well, in the 50's maybe, but by the early 60's, a good quality UK lightweight would have had forged dropouts. Campagnolo components became more popular and available at that point as well. This was also when less ornate, Italian-style "Continental" lugwork became more common. The 50's was much more a period of diversity, with indigenous components used more frequently (and French components by far outnumbering Italian), especially before the UK market crashed circa 1953 and a ton of consolidation happened in the industry almost overnight.
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Old 03-06-11, 08:32 AM
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Great find!
I love the patina. If it were mine I would clean the frame and avoid any more damage damage to the logos. See if there are enough parts in the suit case (assuming they belong to the bike) to assemble it and make a Sunday rider out of it and keep it in a place of prominence the rest of the time.
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Old 03-06-11, 08:32 AM
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Any chance an old photo with your grandfather and the Temple exists? Or perhaps your father can tell you what he remembers and help sort through the mystery box?

What a way to honor your Grandfather! I can only hope that my grandson (one so far) would look at an old bike of mine as you are looking at this one.
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