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Charlie Harding mystery solved? Holdsworth built?

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Charlie Harding mystery solved? Holdsworth built?

Old 04-03-21, 01:24 PM
  #51  
GeorgeHarding
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Hello There,

If you want the history of the Harding bike people, you can send me a private message here.

George.
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Old 04-03-21, 04:26 PM
  #52  
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Can't send private messages

Thank you Charles for your message–unfortunately, I can't reply in the chat as it's not possible for people who've posted fewer than 10 posts to send private messages. If you PM me your email address, I'll be happy to reply there.
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Old 09-28-22, 11:18 AM
  #53  
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Hi George, did you family own the Hardings Cycles on Batchelors walk in dublin? I cant find any photos or info of it online
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Old 09-29-22, 09:01 AM
  #54  
Charles Wahl
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I responded to GeorgeHarding by PM (as he requested) right after his post above in 2021, and never heard back from him. So, maybe don't hold your breath about getting a reply. I'm now the owner of the Harding frame pictured/described in the first few posts of this thread. It's a very nice one, fairly light (under 3 kg), though in middling cosmetic condition.
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Old 10-01-22, 02:55 PM
  #55  
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Hi Charles, Fignon03 and all other commenters,

My apologies for not answering you, or any private messages—it turns out that the private message feature is not enabled for users with fewer than 10 posts. Please feel free to add or message me on Facebook and I will certainly respond to you there. My profile is george.harding.549 (I also can't post a link as I have shared fewer than 10 posts!)

Best,
George
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Old 10-01-22, 04:03 PM
  #56  
Charles Wahl
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Sorry GeorgeHarding , but "what we have here is a failure to communicate" (USA movie reference): I'm a Facebook refuser. I did PM you with an email address in 2021, as you requested. Here's what I wrote in the PM previous to that:

"I'm glad you posted, Mr Harding; thank you. As it turns out, I bought the Harding frame and fork pictured in the first post of this thread ( Charlie Harding mystery solved? Holdsworth built? ) several years ago from "shnibop" in Seattle (the original poster) -- it's now in New York City. I'd like to know as much about it as you can tell me. Serial number of frame is 0260, and a non-matching one for fork 2422. It's in exactly the same state as shown in the thread's photos; I haven't built it up yet. It appears to be a very nicely detailed build quality to me. I was led to believe that its vintage was about 1974. I guess that I had assumed it was originally sold out of the California shop, rather than the one in Cork! I've never seen another fork crown identical to the one on this bike, so if you know anything about that, it would help to satisfy my curiosity about it."

I guess that the questions I'd be most interested in knowing answers to are:
Was this frame/fork built in Ireland, or by Holdsworth in England, or in California, where the USA Harding shop was (bike ended up in Seattle before I bought it)?
If Holdsworth-built, was it a "factory" build, or "shop"? There's apparently some kind of difference that seems to be important to the Holdsworth aficionados, but I have no idea what that is about. I've always been perplexed by the low-digit serial numbers, and the fact that frame (2620) and fork (2422) are not the same.
I've never seen a fork crown like that on this bike, and wonder what it is. Similar to a Davis sloping shouldered internal lug crown, but a bit "squarer".
Does date of 1974 seem about right?
Any chance of being able to source original decals if I chose to get it refinished?

If you'd prefer to communicate by email, then if you click my name at the upper right of this post (Charles Wahl) there should be an option to email me. Everyone else seems to be able to do it -- I do believe it's an option that each user here can enable or disable, but it's enabled for me.

Thanks,
--
Charles

Last edited by Charles Wahl; 10-01-22 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 10-02-22, 08:38 PM
  #57  
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The Hardings did own on Batchelors Walk...

Originally Posted by fignon03 View Post
Hi George, did you family own the Hardings Cycles on Batchelors walk in dublin? I cant find any photos or info of it online
The George Harding that owned cycles shops in Dublin and Batchelors Walk died long ago. His brother Charlie came across and after stops in Canada came to SoCal and eventually opened C. Hardings Westwood Cyclery. Charlie is still around although not so interested in computers. Some very few Hardings we're made directly by George and Charlie but yes, they gave specs to Holdsworth and had frames made for them under the Harding label. Late 70's early 80's time frame they started a factory build but due to construction delays and related financial issues it was never completed. It is my understanding from Charlie that Batchelors Walk and the Dublin shop transferred to Harding relatives at some point around or after Charlie closed up the Westwood shop. I have no idea who the newbie is appearing under the name of George Harding but it would have to be from the Ireland side if related or a couple generations down from Charlie as it isn't his son or daughter
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Old 10-02-22, 09:04 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by GCBM View Post
The George Harding that owned cycles shops in Dublin and Batchelors Walk died long ago. His brother Charlie came across and after stops in Canada came to SoCal and eventually opened C. Hardings Westwood Cyclery. Charlie is still around although not so interested in computers. Some very few Hardings we're made directly by George and Charlie but yes, they gave specs to Holdsworth and had frames made for them under the Harding label. Late 70's early 80's time frame they started a factory build but due to construction delays and related financial issues it was never completed. It is my understanding from Charlie that Batchelors Walk and the Dublin shop transferred to Harding relatives at some point around or after Charlie closed up the Westwood shop. I have no idea who the newbie is appearing under the name of George Harding but it would have to be from the Ireland side if related or a couple generations down from Charlie as it isn't his son or daughter
interestingly, Charlie worked for Hans Ohrt in Beverly Hills and bought the Westwood blvd shop from Ed Lynch who was of Sugden and Lynch in the Bay Area.

Charlie sold Phillips and Legnano, Hetchins, Carlton and later Raleigh and American Eagle ( before Nishiki )

later Harding Labeled Holdsworth.

Charlie did not like kids, even ones that had an interest in road bikes. Cost him a sale when I had saved up enough money for a good road bike. My parents had purchased a matching pair of Carlton Catalina's in 1964.

I do not think he enjoyed the retail business actually.
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Old 10-13-22, 10:41 AM
  #59  
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Hi Charles,I have sent you a message now via the email link on your profile.Regards,George
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Old 10-13-22, 03:16 PM
  #60  
Charles Wahl
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Thank you! I replied via email.
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Old 10-14-22, 08:51 AM
  #61  
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Good to see old threads revived.

Still riding my Harding Special.

Hey @shnibop - what happened to the orange Harding that started this thread. If it is still around, want to part with it?

regards to all - Wildwood Harding

and to GeorgeHarding - thanks for your participation.
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Old 10-14-22, 12:01 PM
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Thank you, everyone, for this thread. I remember C. Harding's For Bikes well, first as a middle schooler and later as a UCLA student (1968-1978). Charlie had a beautiful curly-stay Hetchins on a high rack on one side of the shop and a curious 90-speed bike on the other (combination derailleur and epicyclic gears with, I am sure, lots of redundancies). He maintained a well-stocked board with individual Regina freewheel cogs, which I found very helpful in my "gear phreaking" exercises. I am surprised he later sold Nishiki, because I don't think he thought too much of my 1970-1 model The marque did improve substantially during the 1970s.
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Old 10-14-22, 12:10 PM
  #63  
Charles Wahl
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
Good to see old threads revived.

Still riding my Harding Special.

Hey @shnibop - what happened to the orange Harding that started this thread. If it is still around, want to part with it?

regards to all - Wildwood Harding

and to GeorgeHarding - thanks for your participation.
@Wildwood, that frame is hanging on my bedroom wall now, for at least 10 years (seems to me that you and I had discussed it here or offline). And no, I don't wish to part with it -- it's somewhere in the upper half of my projects queue.

George Harding told me that Harding contracted with Holdsworth (factory) for about 200 such frames, ridden by Seán Kelly and Tour of Ireland champion Pat McQuaid in the mid-70s. I'd be happy to share his whole message, but would have to get his permission to do so.

Last edited by Charles Wahl; 10-14-22 at 12:18 PM.
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