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-   -   Help needed identifying a frame (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/721135-help-needed-identifying-frame.html)

Tychom 03-19-11 10:47 AM

Help needed identifying a frame
 
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5015/...17c1cb60_z.jpg

So I picked this up recently and I'm trying to identify who made the frame and would appeciate any help, here's what's known about the bike as a whole that may help:

Chrome plated Columbus tubing
Full Campy Super Record
Cinelli Campione handlebars
Stem with 'Franck Michel' on one side, 'Im Chenaie, La Valette 83100' on the other
No head badge
Ciocc fork
Campy Stamped dropouts
No name/logo at the top of the seat stays
Peddles with 'Fratelli Aleara Torino' stickers
Mavic GP4 wheels

Wouldnt a Ciocc have the seat stays stamped?

Here's close ups of some various bits: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tychom/...7626300761682/

Bianchigirll 03-19-11 11:12 AM

I don't think the fork is original, the semi sloping crown would postdate a frame with above BB cable guides. the cranks are marked with OLmo so do the parts or the fork match the frame.

Tom Simpson won the world championships in '65 but I can't find who he rode for or what he rode.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Simpson

i looks like he was riding for Peugeot BP in '65 but no idea what bike. ( I am assuming the World champ decal is original and the Peugeot BP team was the car company not the bike)

In Classics, 1963 and 1965 were Simpson's best years. Riding in the black-and-white of the Peugeot BP team in 1963, he won Bordeaux–Paris, was second in Paris–Brussels and Paris–Tours, third in the Ronde van Vlaanderen, eighth in Paris–Roubaix, and 10th in La Flèche Wallonne and the Giro di Lombardia.
Simpson won Milan – San Remo in 1964, finished fourth again in the world championship and 10th in Paris–Roubaix. He also came close to a stage victory in the Tour de France, finishing second on stage 9, ending 14th overall.
In 1965, Simpson became first Briton to win the world professional road racing championship, outsprinting Germany's Rudi Altig at San Sebastián in Spain after the two had broken away with 40 km to go. He also won the Italian Autumn Classic, the Giro di Lombardia (the second world champion jersey also to win in Italy - the other was Alfredo Binda in the 1920s), and picked up third in Flèche Wallonne and Bordeaux–Paris, sixth in Paris–Roubaix and 10th in Liège–Bastogne–Liège. He partnered Peter Post to victory in the six-day race at Brussels.

unworthy1 03-19-11 11:44 AM

agree with BG: it's not a Ciocc (but think that's a San Cristobal fork), don't think it's an Olmo, either. It's an early style Columbus tubing decal and the details look very nice yet unique: like those top tube cable guides and semi-wrap stays. Might be a custom build. What brand stem is that: a 3TTT? How about a close-up of the drop-outs and are the (rear) brakes nutted or both F&R Allen-head bolts? What size seat post?
The stickers on the toe clips are the brand: ALE

Tychom 03-19-11 02:46 PM

Thanks Bianchigirll and unworthy1 for the info.

I've uploaded further photos of the Campione decals - 4 in all - 2 x 'Campione Italiano 1964-65-66-67', 'Campione Del Mondo 1966', 'Campione Del Mondo 1968'

unworthy1, I've put up more photos on the flickr set - yes, it's a 3ttt stem. The seatpost is Campy, 27.2. Don't entirely understand the question regarding F&R allen-head bolts, but there's a pic up there which perhaps can help.

Cheers.

[edit] oh also, the freewheel is a 6 speed Maillard Course (Maillard 700?)

Bianchigirll 03-19-11 02:59 PM

unworthyone is asking how the brake calipers mount to the frame and fork. do they have regular nuts or do you need a allen wrench to remove them. it looks like they are allen type or recessed.

the Campagnolo dropouts would indicate a better quality frame and the holes for the Portacatena (chain holder) should narrow down the time frame somewhat.

unworthy1 03-19-11 03:18 PM

right, I was trying to gather clues to narrow down the possible year, and since it's got:
the portacatena holes in the Campy dropouts
the top-of-BB cable guides
the single water-bottle bosses
recessed Allen-head brake mountings on both the frame and the (not original) fork
it's clear that the decals can't be trusted, that Columbus decal would indicate an earlier frame, but this has to be late '70s to early '80s. I guess that the rest of the decals might be not original, too, and they were reminding me of something from a big maker like Bianchi who sponsored a lot of racers (and won many years in a row). I still think this is from a smaller-output concern, but most probably made from Columbus SL tubing and high quality.
Next question: any numbers or stampings of any kind on the BB shell or anywhere on the frame?

Tychom 03-19-11 05:25 PM

Thanks both, yes they're allen bolts front and rear.

The only marking anywhere is the expected serial on the BB underside, a stamped 'S1006 57' on a flattened section (I can put up a pic tomorrow if you want), other than that the only livery I can find anywhere is the campy on the dropouts already seen. There aren't really any flourishes that would pinpoint it's origin.

The actual water bottle holder is a REG fwiw.

Tychom 03-20-11 04:58 AM

Just added two final photos of the BB underside to the flickr set in the hopes it's of some use. Otherwise I guess it may have to remain a mystery.

Picchio Special 03-20-11 05:30 AM

As stated, the decals might not be original, but they are vaguely suggestive of Bottecchia, given the possible referencing of a number of 60's Molteni victories.

unworthy1 03-20-11 12:15 PM


Originally Posted by Picchio Special (Post 12384632)
As stated, the decals might not be original, but they are vaguely suggestive of Bottecchia, given the possible referencing of a number of 60's Molteni victories.

Yep, Bottecchia decals are what they (now) look like to me, too...but I don't think this is a Bottecchia frame, just some decals somebody slapped on.
The BB shell might be one of the early Cinelli investment-cast shells and the builder may have brazed a plate over the area where the cast-in Cinelli logo was. That's a treatment I've never seen done before, and the numbers don't tell me anything except it's a 57cm size.
Still mysterious, but it's clearly a good Italian frame so no reason not to enjoy it (in all its anonymity).

Wannashmooze 04-04-11 09:51 PM

The lug cutout on the seatpost looks like a cutout on my biemmezeta produced frame. The bike I have is a 1985 Performance Cycles Campione, but I do not have all those cable guides on the BB shell, and my BB shell looks very different. It could have been produced by biemmezeta, they did a lot of contract work for larger firms. In any case, it looks like a very fine example of Italian steel, so enjoy the ride and who cares who made it!

realestvin7 04-05-11 12:19 AM

Nice details on that frame. Hope you figure it out. I love frame mysteries.


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