Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

1972 Eddy Merckx

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

1972 Eddy Merckx

Old 03-22-11, 04:33 AM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
1972 Eddy Merckx

New to the forum and wondered whether any one could give me more information about this 1972 Merckx I was lucky enough to acquire recently?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
merck.jpg (14.5 KB, 252 views)
paulinho is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 08:10 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,754
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Hard to tell from the small pic. In '72 there were only Eddy Merckx branded bikes, he was not in the bike building business yet. Could be a Falcon, or Kessels, or ?? Post bigger pics for more info.
Otis is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 08:59 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
bobbycorno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,454
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Not to sound snarky or anything, but it looks too nice to be a Falcon "Merckx", so probably a Kessels?

SP
Bend, OR
bobbycorno is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 09:02 AM
  #4  
Mostly Mischief
 
jan nikolajsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Moab, Utah
Posts: 1,494
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 24 Posts
This could very well be a bike we would love to see bigger and better shots of.
jan nikolajsen is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 09:12 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,316
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3470 Post(s)
Liked 2,844 Times in 2,005 Posts
Why does the original poster think this bike is from 1972?
repechage is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 09:34 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 13,954
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 111 Times in 80 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage
Why does the original poster think this bike is from 1972?
I dont know. Is there something your not telling us?
miamijim is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 09:50 AM
  #7  
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,571

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2450 Post(s)
Liked 4,492 Times in 2,128 Posts
Originally Posted by miamijim
I dont know. Is there something your not telling us?
A. It has a Campagnolo Nuovo Gran Sport group (1974+) with an aluminum 3-pin crankset on it.
B. The brake levers look like long-reach Weinmanns.
C. Given the components listed in A and B, just how easy is it to pin the date on a Falcon?

-Kurt
__________________












cudak888 is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 10:09 AM
  #8  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Many thanks for your thoughts so far - a few more pics here - will hopefully be able to post higher resolution in coming days.

I was told it was a 1972 but can't guarantee it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Picture 5.jpg (15.3 KB, 189 views)
File Type: png
Picture 4.png (81.8 KB, 212 views)
File Type: jpg
Picture 1.jpg (15.2 KB, 206 views)
File Type: jpg
Picture 2.jpg (11.8 KB, 199 views)
File Type: jpg
Picture 3.jpg (13.9 KB, 175 views)
paulinho is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 10:14 AM
  #9  
vjp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I have an early 70's Kessels Eddy Merckx, I think this is a De Rosa.
vjp is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 10:16 AM
  #10  
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,658
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1472 Post(s)
Liked 1,112 Times in 824 Posts
I'm just guessing, but based on the chrome forkcrown and water-bottle bosses, and notwithstanding the top tube clips and early Columbus sticker...I'd guess it's not a Falcon and it's later than '72. Don't know if it's possible for it to be a DeRosa (or one built with his supervision) but could be a Kessels...definitely not a Miyata.
Edit, I'll have to go with vjp, if he had a Kessels to compare against, then it IS possible for it to be a DeRosa (or Ugo-supervised).
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 10:24 AM
  #11  
vjp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
The Kessels bikes are all 531 if I am not mistaken.
vjp is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 10:25 AM
  #12  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Would anyone be able to hazard a guess at the value assuming it is a DeRosa build?
paulinho is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 10:27 AM
  #13  
vjp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
https://www.speedbicycles.ch/showBike...14eea2fa0e6227

This bike has the DeRosa engraved on the seat stay cap, maybe a rare Van Der Est?
vjp is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 10:43 AM
  #14  
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,658
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1472 Post(s)
Liked 1,112 Times in 824 Posts
Whoa, let's back up a little: there's much controversy and murkiness about the relationship between Ugo DeRosa and Merckx frame production: it's generally accepted as fact that Ugo built the TEAM frames that Eddy and others on the Molteni team rode (though before he did Kessels built some and rumour says that Colnago made one) and that Ugo was the guy to set up the factory and train some builders for the Merckx factory in Belgium. But most people won't say that he ever built any production Merckx frames and certainly none that got this "Eddy" labeling and picture decals on Molteni orange: that's what the "licensed" frames get, until Merckx factory started making them. The factory went into full production in 1980...
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 10:49 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lancaster County, PA
Posts: 5,045

Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by unworthy1
Whoa, let's back up a little: there's much controversy and murkiness about the relationship between Ugo DeRosa and Merckx frame production: it's generally accepted as fact that Ugo built the TEAM frames that Eddy and others on the Molteni team rode (though before he did Kessels built some and rumour says that Colnago made one) and that Ugo was the guy to set up the factory and train some builders for the Merckx factory in Belgium. But most people won't say that he ever built any production Merckx frames and certainly none that got this "Eddy" labeling and picture decals on Molteni orange: that's what the "licensed" frames get, until Merckx factory started making them. The factory went into full production in 1980...
Kessels built for Eddy at the same time Eddy was getting bikes from De Rosa and Colnago - the eras overlap - as well as late in Eddy's career, post-Molteni. There's no "rumour" regarding Colnago - they built quite a few Molteni team bikes over a number of years. The formal De Rosa-Molteni relationship apparently started in '73, though Ugo may have built a frame or two for Eddy prior to that. Eddy also rode Colnagos that year, at least some of the time. De Rosa built for Fiat, I believe, and Kessels for C&A.
There's also a ton of evidence, by the way, that De Rosa also built at least a few of the very early production Merckx frames - I've seen some that are pretty nearly indisputable.
Picchio Special is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 10:49 AM
  #16  
vjp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I was contemplating that it "looks" like a De Rosa. If it is, then I would assume that it is a re-finished bike with EM livery. Ignoring the EM decals it does look like a De Rosa to me.
vjp is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 10:51 AM
  #17  
vjp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Paulinho,

Do you have a pic of the bottom of the BB shell? Is there a cutout? Shape of cutout?
vjp is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 10:52 AM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lancaster County, PA
Posts: 5,045

Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
If it's a De Rosa, the seatstay caps and top of fork crown should tell the tale.
(With a caveat that 70's De Rosas vary enough feature-wise, that very little if anything is completely definitive.)

Last edited by Picchio Special; 03-22-11 at 11:04 AM.
Picchio Special is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 10:57 AM
  #19  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by vjp
Paulinho,

Do you have a pic of the bottom of the BB shell? Is there a cutout? Shape of cutout?
I'm heading home from work now.

Will have a look.
paulinho is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 11:12 AM
  #20  
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,658
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1472 Post(s)
Liked 1,112 Times in 824 Posts
Originally Posted by Picchio Special
There's no "rumour" regarding Colnago - they built quite a few Molteni team bikes over a number of years.
There's also a ton of evidence, by the way, that De Rosa also built at least a few of the very early production Merckx frames - I've seen some that are pretty nearly indisputable.
I am not any kind of expert in this, but what I was referring to was the rumour that Ernesto Colnago himself ever built a frame for Eddy (or anyone else for that matter), not whether Eddy rode on Colnago-branded frames...but that's another controversy we don't need to raise.
Words I have read (including an account by Richard Sachs) is that the first frames built for the Milan Cycle trade show (show bikes) were almost certainly made in DeRosa's shop and since the lugs had the distinctive cutouts, the stay caps engraved "DeRosa" and the stays a distinctive shape: there was little doubt where they came from, though this "accepted fact" was never made public. I've also read that the early production frames that were made in Belgium had some of the same frame bits (lugs but not with heart cut-outs, stays and even DeRosa forkcrowns and stay caps) and this is the reason that people say that DeRosa was actually building frames there. Others say it only proves where Merckx was sourcing his frame building bits during early days.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 11:21 AM
  #21  
vjp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I don't think anyone was assuming that this bike is one of the early Merckx factory bikes that MAY have been built by De Rosa, it is 10 or so years early for that.

Originally Posted by unworthy1
I am not any kind of expert in this, but what I was referring to was the rumour that Ernesto Colnago himself ever built a frame for Eddy (or anyone else for that matter), not whether Eddy rode on Colnago-branded frames...but that's another controversy we don't need to raise.
Words I have read (including an account by Richard Sachs) is that the first frames built for the Milan Cycle trade show (show bikes) were almost certainly made in DeRosa's shop and since the lugs had the distinctive cutouts, the stay caps engraved "DeRosa" and the stays a distinctive shape: there was little doubt where they came from, though this "accepted fact" was never made public. I've also read that the early production frames that were made in Belgium had some of the same frame bits (lugs but not with heart cut-outs, stays and even DeRosa forkcrowns and stay caps) and this is the reason that people say that DeRosa was actually building frames there. Others say it only proves where Merckx was sourcing his frame building bits during early days.
vjp is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 11:38 AM
  #22  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
In the BB shell there is a stamped number 9. There is no cutout.

Does this help identify it?
paulinho is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 12:36 PM
  #23  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
...apparently originally purchased in Milan in 1972.
paulinho is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 12:37 PM
  #24  
vjp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by paulinho
In the BB shell there is a stamped number 9. There is no cutout.

Does this help identify it?
It possibly helps identify what it isn't.

Kessels had two large round holes in the BB shell and DeRosa have a heart shaped cut out.

Are there cut-outs in the lugs? What shape are they?
vjp is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 12:56 PM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lancaster County, PA
Posts: 5,045

Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by unworthy1
I am not any kind of expert in this, but what I was referring to was the rumour that Ernesto Colnago himself ever built a frame for Eddy (or anyone else for that matter), not whether Eddy rode on Colnago-branded frames...but that's another controversy we don't need to raise.
This is more clear - thanks. But I'm not aware that there's any controversary as to whether Colnago (the maker) built some of Eddy's frames - that's pretty certain, IMO.
Picchio Special is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.