thenomad

I have these two bikes and after picking them up it seems that the Schwinn is heavier despite being a 52cm vs the Panasonic's 59cm.
Which one is really better? I'm thinking of swapping parts to get the best of both.

I thought the Columbus frame was lighter and figured the components would be better. The Panasonic seems to have nicer looking components though and is lighter despite being larger.

The Schwinn had heavier wheels (wolber super champion) but in its credit they are 36f 40r and Vittoria tires. The Panasonic seems to have better hubs though and lighter weight rims with Continental Duraskin.

The Panasonc has shimano components vs the Schwinn Diacompe brakes and Suguino crank. The rear cassettes are both 6 speed though the Schwinn was a slightly wider range.

realestvin7

Ooh, this may get good. That_guy_zach has both. I'd be interested in hearing what he has to say.

jeebusaurousrex

No experience with either, but nothing wrong with DiaCompe and Sugino components! Looking at both the 87 and 88 catalogs specify that the Voyageur should have a Shimano triple cranket with Biopace though. Maybe yours was replaced? The BB was specified as "Shimano Chrome Moly Sealed" too.

What kind of blows my mind is that the triple shows 50/44/28 with a freewheel range of 14 to 30! Craziness! Is that normal in touring or mtb circles?

YoKev

Modern day 9-speed drivetrains on mountain bikes are typically a 11-32 or 11-34 cassette with somewheres around a 22/32/42 crankset.

thenomad

I replaced the crank on the Schwinn when I got it since it had been replaced by a childs crank. I put on a suguino 50-44-32 crank but the BB is a nice cup and cone shimano.
The Panasonic came with 50-44-28 biopace with a 28 rear gear so its 1-1.

jeebusaurousrex

Holy dag, learn something new every day!

southpawboston

The Columbus tubing on the Schwinn is actually rather heavy, despite being double-butted. It's Columbus "Tenax" tubing which is essentially SP. It is spec'd for loaded touring, so it has 0.7-1.0-0.7 wall thickness. That's pretty thick, but still far thinner than hi-ten. The fork and stays are straight-gauge Tange chromoly. I'm guessing the framset weighs about 8 lb, about the same as similar Japanese touring spec framesets made from Tange 2 DB chromoly, or Brit bikes made with 531 ST. The point wasn't being as light as possible, but strong enough for loaded touring while still being only a few pounds heavier than a racing frame. It's still a lot lighter than hi-ten. My question is, what's your intended use for the bikes? If loaded touring, go for the one that can handle the weight. If just light touring or credit-card touring, you might consider the lighter bike. Also consider which one fits you best and keeps you the most comfortable.

What tubing does the Panasonic have?

BTW-- the Schwinn was built by Panasonic.

jeebusaurousrex

Voyageurs also had some nice extras like 3 brazed bottle bosses. Catalog specs show 24lbs with pedals for a 23". That's pretty damn good. I've been trying to find one in decent shape to replace my worldsport as a grocery hauler.

thenomad

Yes, the Schwinn has 3 bottle bosses and lowrider mounts, everything else is the same. Even has the same fork crowns and rear rack eyelets. I swapped in the Shimano 600 headset.

Forgot to mention the Panasonic is Tange 1000 double butted CroMo. I did read a post somewhere where it was proposed that Tange 1000 was the same as Tenax.

The goal was just to have a bike to use for commuting and I like all the extras the touring bike has. If I decided to do some touring I'd then have something to use and it'd probably be CC touring. I know its splitting hairs but I found it odd that the larger bike seemed lighter.

The Schwinn fits me, need a taller stem and it'd be good to go. The Panasonic is right up on my sit bones. For kicks I'll put some smaller 700 with 28s on it and see how the standover is. Heck, the Panasonic may be a nicer fit since I'm between the two sizes.

FuzzyDunlop

I'm surprised to see that you're trying to decide between a 52cm and a 59cm. That's a huge difference! Pick the one that fits the best is my advice, and if neither of them fit, send me the 59 and keep looking.

jeebusaurousrex

I guess you can make the 52 fit with the proper seatpost and stem combo. If the 59 is too big, then there's no saving it. I can fit anywhere between 52 and 58 on racing geometry though the stand over on the 58 will be uncomfortable without shoes and cleats.

himespau 

For what it's worth, I think the Schwinn is prettier, but that white bar tape is going to get dirty

jeebusaurousrex

Tange 1000 may possibly have similar specs as Tenax, but Tenax was specifically re-branded Columbus SP/SPX depending on the year and size. Southpawboston has it right: Tenax/SP was made for heavier loads. They even used it for their track frames during that era - which was also made in Japan by Panasonic.

I have a 23" Tempo made of Tenax and a 22" Circuit made of Columbus SL. Subjectively, the Tenax frame is much more stiff compared to the SL, which feels "whippier" and can flex when I'm pushing hard.

Catalog weight for the Voyageur, including pedals, was only 24lbs for a 23" frame (59cm). That's pretty good for a full on touring bike. Maybe the Panasonic feels lighter because of the components?

thenomad

It's what I got!
If I had a 55cm I'd be happiest.

jeebusaurousrex

I'd personally go with the Voyageur then.

Make sure to send Fuzzydunlop the Panasonic!

himespau 

or you could troll the CL for a 55 cm (I see a lot more of those than larger sizes) and sell these two to make room for it.

thenomad

I will be selling what I don't use. Already commuted on the Voyageur but I'm not in love with the barends yet.

matt0ne

Let me know if you're selling that Panasonic - that thing's a beaut!

bobbycorno

As someone else suggested: ride 'em both and then decide. Tubing, weight and components are secondary - the big question is "How's it ride??"

SP
Bend, OR

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

If you can fit on it, I'd keep the Panasonic and sell the Schwinn.

For me its all about top tube length rather than standover height.

thenomad

I'll be riding the Panasonic to work tomorrow or the next day so I'll see how she goes.
Whatever I keep will have to be a SS cyclocross mule once the season starts. Split personality bike

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

oh, well standover height might matter a little more on a cross bike than a road bike.

thenomad

Looks like the Voyageur still has the top spot, just needs a different stem to be finished, standover is much better. The Panasonic is nice though, just can't see an emergency foot down on a hill going well.

Thumpic

pick the one that fits.....

and if its not the Panasonic; pick it anyway.....

thenomad

OK, so did a lot more accurate measuring.
The Voyageur is 52cm seat and 54cm top tube. The PT-3500 is 57cm seat and 56cm top tube.
My road bike that feels pretty good all around is 55cm seat 55cm top tube, so you can see that they are each in the same basic range up or down from what I feel is best. Stem length makes up for the differences.

On my scale the PT-3500 seems like its .5lb lighter, but it could be the same with tires and freewheels making up the difference.
Components are identical but for the barcons.

I did some riding around the block and now I'm torn between them both. I'll ride the Panasonic tomorrow to work and see what it's like.
Schwinn still needs a longer technomic style stem to get the fit equal between them both.