hartungej

Hello,

I am considering upgrading a vintage 1987, I believe, Prelude. I know it's not worth it, but it's a cool old bike that fits me really well. It's currently a 12 speed. I was considering upgrading to a 9 speed setup. Someone has a Shimano 9-speed group on CL with Ultegra bar end shifters, FD, RD, Ritchey Crankset, ultegra brakes, cassette, Cane Creek brake handles for $200 "lightly used."

However, I'm wondering if I will run into trouble with trying to install a modern sealed BB into the vintage threaded BB? Also, my rear axle spacing is only 126mm. Will I run into problems with this?

Thanks for your help.

Scooper

Your bottom bracket shell is English threaded, so there should be no problem using a modern cartridge BB. You should be able to easily slip a 130mm O.L.D. hub into the 126mm spaced dropouts without having to cold set the rear triangle.

canam73

Couple of things you need to check are that the front derailleur has the correct braze on or clamp for your bike. Also see if the group comes with down tube cable stops or you will need to buy some. But for the most part you should be able to get everything to work.

stausty

'Worth it' is a very subjective term. If you have a bike that you like and fits you and upgrading it will make you ride it more and have more fun doing it, then $200 is cheap for that. There are many here who think those Tenax-tubed Schwinns from the late-80's are underrated and ride very well.

BB on the Prelude is English, as are almost all modern bikes. No issues there.

The rear triangle can easily be spread from 126 mm to 130 mm. No real issues there.

If you're using the original stem and bars there's no problem with the threaded/threadless conversion you could have needed with modern bars.

You will probably need DT cable stops like these:

https://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Shimano-Dura...item3f08b4d2c9

to mate the bar-end shifters with the down-tube shifter braze-ons that your bike has.

You may also have an issue with the front derailleur clamp size. Many bikes use a 31.8 mm clamp these days and your bike takes a 28.6 mm clamp. If there's a problem with the FD you picked up, guess what? You can use your original FD with the bar-end shifters you bought. No issue there.

The brakes on the Prelude are recessed-mounted (not nutted) as are the Ultegra calipers. No problem at all there.

Sounds like you just need to get a set of wheels (Shimano 8/9/10 compatible cassette) and a free day on the weekend and you'll have yourself a very nice bike.

realestvin7

Of course your bike is worth it. Tenax Schwinns are great bikes. If it fits, go for it.

hartungej

Thanks for the info everyone! This has all been really helpful and allowed me to ask some proper questions of the seller. I'm now much more confident that I can get this to work!

I do know I've had one of my wheels with an 8sp cassette on my 126mm bottom bracket before. If I use that same wheel and swap for a 9sp cassette is should still fit, right? I'm planning to upgrade the wheels on my other 8sp bike anyway.

The downtube that the FD will fit on is only 1 1/8 inches (28.6mm, I presume). Will I have any issues fitting the FD on with a spacer if it is a wider clamp than this, or is this not a good idea? Like you said, I'm sure I could continue to use the same old front deraileur.

The DT cable stops you guys are talking about are to be able to run the cable through the braze ons where the downtube shifters currently are, right? I would just mount the bar end shifters as normal with the cable housing starting at the downtube shifter braze-ons and running up through the handlebars, right?

Might there be any issue with the bar end shifter's fitting into the end of my drop bar? Are there different sizes of drop bars?

$200 for Ultegra bar end shifters and a full shimano 105 group and BB with Ritchey crank, brake levers and Ultegra brakes all with 200 or less miles sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Anyone think otherwise? I'm a little new to switching out drivetrains. It seems like you all think this is a worthy project. To me, it's worth it for the experience of working on my bike and getting some more enjoyment out of a bike that fits me nicely.

jeebusaurousrex

Just so we can keep everything properly labeled, a bottom bracket is what your cranks are attached too and has nothing to do with the wheel! What a cassette or freewheel is attached to is the rear hub. If your old 8spd wheel had a freewheel rear hub, then NO, you can not swap in a modern 9spd cassette. If your old wheel has a free hub, then (possibly) YES, you can swap in a new 9spd cassette Freewheel hubs are threaded and free-hubs are splined. They are two very different, very incompatible systems. See Sheldon Brown's page for more information. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html

If you're using the same size chain rings and are not moving from a double to a triple (or vice versa), there's a great possibility you can use your original FD. If you are looking to get a newer one, buy one without a clamp and get a separate 28.6 hanger. They're cheap and plentiful. I bought a shiny new aluminum one for under $15 on ebay with shipping included.

Shifters > Cables in housing > DT stops > Cables (RD Cable with housing) > Derailleurs. Easy! What the cable stops also do is provide you with the ability to fine tune your indexing (if you're using indexed shifters). You will greatly appreciate this ability on an indexed FD shifter.

Maybe, but if you're using the original bars you shouldn't have problems. I don't have direct experience though so don't take my word for it.

What does "full shimano 105 group" mean? Personally I think $200 is a little hefty, especially because you may not need a new crank.

hartungej

Thanks Jeebasaurousrex- I did have some of my terms mixed up. I do have a free hub on my wheel, so hopefully upgrading to a 9sp won't be a problem. Thanks for all of the other tips as well. Looking forward to trying this upgrade.

Scooper

I'll second realestvin7's endorsement of the late eighties Tenax Schwinns.

canyoneagle

The 126 to 130mm thing isn't a big issue with a steel frame.

In the 90's when the frame standard started to shift to 130 mm, many people installed the newer components on their 126mm spaced frames.


Some indexing systems are more sensitive than others to the very subtle change in angle that the derailleur hanger makes when the stays are spread to accommodate the wider hub. It shouldn't be an issue, but you can always have the frame "cold set" and checked for alignment and you're good to go.

brockd15 

You can get a shim to mount a 31.8 or 34.9 clamp front derailleur to a 28.6 tube...that shouldn't stop you. If it's a braze-on FD you can get an adapter to make it work. The only time you'd really have an issue would be if your bike uses a braze-on FD but the one you're buying is a clamp-on. Luckily for you, your bike doesn't use a braze-on FD, so you should be fine.

I guess there could be issues putting a 9 speed cassette on that 8 speed wheelset you mentioned, but chances are pretty good that it will all fit fine.

As far as value, it sounds pretty fair to me. If you wanted to buy that group a piece at a time you may be able to come out under $200 if you get some great deals. I'd consider the below to be good prices for those pieces...

9 speed bar end shifters - $50
Ultegra 6500 brakes - $35
Cassette - $20
Brake levers - $20
Ritchey crankset -$35 (that might be high or low...I'm not very familiar with Ritchey cranks)
Bottom bracket - $10
105 front derailleur - $15
105 rear derailleur - $20

That totals $205, and you'd have to do a fair amount of hunting for it, and most likely have things shipped from multiple sources.

huerro

This sounds like a great build.

I build up a Prelude with a 9 speed Shimano group and it was very straightforward. For the front derailleur I just used a rubber shim that I had in my parts box, probably from a computer mount. It worked beautifully. I also didn't bother cold setting the rear triangle. The 130 mm rear hub went in with no problem.

Also, check with your bike shop for the down tube cable stops. It's the sort of thing that often doesn't get used in an install and they will give you for a few bucks or for free.

canam73

I agree. I had a 1987 Paramount with a DA bar end/Ultegra 600 mix on it. A little more bling but similar in function. I sold it to my brother and he still rides it. I'm a little envious every time I see it.

hartungej

Thanks again to everyone here. I'm getting lots of big and little tips from each of your posts that are making me pretty confident about being able to do this. Can't wait to start my first build!