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different vintage question a car

Old 04-24-11, 07:44 PM
  #1  
Bianchigirll 
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different vintage question a car

OK OK I know this is really off topic but you guys have alot of different interest including cars.

I have been considering a second car, and I would love an old sedan. it is a long shot but I may have a chance to buy a 63 Oldsmobile F-85. it is some kind of special model with a Jetsomething or other 318 small block. it need some radiator work and little touchup inside. it was repained a few years ago and though it is not visable there is a bit of rust under the rocker panel covers.

I'll get pics tomorrow. I sort of offered 3k did I lowball?

thanks for your input
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Old 04-24-11, 07:48 PM
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Very cool cars, my mother had one back in the 60s and still talks about it.

If it's in solid shape it should be a breeze to work on although some mechanical bits and body and trim parts will be tough.
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Old 04-24-11, 08:02 PM
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Bianchigirl, I believe that Olds used the Buick aluminum 215 CID V8, turbocharged. GM ultimately sold the tooling for it off to the British. I had a Rover sedan with that engine. They used that engine and the descendants of it in Range Rovers for many years.

This Youtube ad is incorrectly identifying the car as a 64, rather it is a 61 or 62:

https://youtu.be/iieDedNEYuI
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Old 04-24-11, 08:26 PM
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I wonder if the funky alloy turbo engine was replaced at some time with something bigger and more traditional. I've thought it would be fun to replace one of those alloy engines with one of their modern, fuel injected descendants from a Rover. I took a test drive in one of those Rovers years ago and it was true love. I just couldn't raise the money.
Whatever engine it has, take a magnet to the rust areas to determine just how much rust there is. This is the 2 door?
If it does still have the turbo, read up on those and take a close look at it. They're wonderful things but they sometimes die terrible deaths. The alloy engines are pretty stout, though. You can put your magnet on the block to see if it's still got one of those.
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Old 04-24-11, 08:28 PM
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Not off topic at all - vintage car + vintage bike = lots of photo opportunities.

I was trying to talk my wife into looking at an early Porsche 928 yesterday but that didn't fly. I think I could push a 60's car through with her a little easier. Just takes some patience.
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Old 04-24-11, 08:33 PM
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You offered $3K sight unseen?
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Old 04-24-11, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sailorbenjamin View Post
I wonder if the funky alloy turbo engine was replaced at some time with something bigger and more traditional. I've thought it would be fun to replace one of those alloy engines with one of their modern, fuel injected descendants from a Rover. I took a test drive in one of those Rovers years ago and it was true love. I just couldn't raise the money.
Whatever engine it has, take a magnet to the rust areas to determine just how much rust there is. This is the 2 door?
If it does still have the turbo, read up on those and take a close look at it. They're wonderful things but they sometimes die terrible deaths. The alloy engines are pretty stout, though. You can put your magnet on the block to see if it's still got one of those.
I don't think it has a turbo charger.

Originally Posted by iab View Post
You offered $3K sight unseen?
OH no I have seen it and few years ago I rode in it a few times.

I think this is it but a 4 door https://images.search.yahoo.com/image...mb=ZXX1mYx/JYl

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Old 04-24-11, 09:03 PM
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Trina, you need to correct your photo link.
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Old 04-24-11, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sailorbenjamin View Post
I wonder if the funky alloy turbo engine was replaced at some time with something bigger and more traditional. I've thought it would be fun to replace one of those alloy engines with one of their modern, fuel injected descendants from a Rover. I took a test drive in one of those Rovers years ago and it was true love. I just couldn't raise the money.
Whatever engine it has, take a magnet to the rust areas to determine just how much rust there is. This is the 2 door?
If it does still have the turbo, read up on those and take a close look at it. They're wonderful things but they sometimes die terrible deaths. The alloy engines are pretty stout, though. You can put your magnet on the block to see if it's still got one of those.
The alloy block was also normally aspirated too, with a modest 155bhp if I remember. A silly GM decision to sell that design and tooling. Also found in the Buick Skylark of the same era. Turbo management back then was very basic, water injection to fight off detonation. All of these motors were designed for leaded fuel, I would want to know if the heads still had the original valve seats, these babies need premium of today and more to live and even then can eat valves if stressed. Just don't fall in love with a near year Pontiac Tempest...
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Old 04-24-11, 09:22 PM
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Rust on anything from the '60s or later means that you should expect to do some mig welding - i.e.: installing patch panels. Expect more rust than you see on the outside.

Here's my own nightmare; never mind the cracked window, or the vinyl - which was shot to start with:









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Old 04-24-11, 09:32 PM
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A rusty 4 door for 3K? If it were a coupe or convertible(even a wagon has a higher value than a sedan), maybe...
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Old 04-24-11, 09:50 PM
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If memory serves me well: That Olds was not only a turbo-charged engine, but also used water injection to limit detonation. Of course, it wasn't just water - you can't sell jugs of water over the parts counter at your local Oldsmobile dealership. There was something else mixed in, and owners were supposed to periodically refill the container. On an American car. In the 60's. Somebody in marketing was absolutely dreaming. Bottom line is that the cars are somewhat rare because they didn't sell well. Chevrolet's Corvair used the same system on it's flat-6 without all the water injection gobbly-de-gook, and cleaned Oldsmobile's clock in the sales race. And I'm not really sure which one came out first. I've read claims for both, although I hear the Oldsmobile claim more often.

I'd seriously consider grabbing it, although first check to make sure the whole setup is still under the hood. If it's been converted to straight carburetor, it's just another F-85 and nowhere near as worthwhile.
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Old 04-24-11, 09:52 PM
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Things you could do to an F-85 if you bought it. Car Craft link
https://www.carcraft.com/projectbuild...f85/index.html
https://www.carcraft.com/featuredvehi..._85/index.html
https://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...wap/index.html

Love the old big boats but, as Cudak888 says expect rust even if you don't see it. And a car without many or any creature comforts that you have become accustome to over the years. Also such things as weird water leeks, electrics that don't work and the smell of gasoline while drive the car. As for a fun side project. I'd say this, if you can get it for cheap such as 1500 dollars cheap and you like tinkering and have room for such a big car (which I found to me a problem) it would be a very cool project. As for a consistant secondary car it depends on where you live and how cold it gets. These older cars tend not to like the cold weather and are even harder to drive in the snow. which make their use as a secondary car all the more tougher.
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Old 04-24-11, 10:05 PM
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BGirl, Here's this:
https://www.oldride.com/library/1963_oldsmobile_f85.html


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Old 04-24-11, 10:08 PM
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If it's the car in her pic it won't be a 215 or a turbo, it'll be a good old fashioned iron V8 probably a 394.

The aluminum V8 and the turbo were in the smaller Olds and Buick.
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Old 04-24-11, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
The alloy block was also normally aspirated too, with a modest 155bhp if I remember. A silly GM decision to sell that design and tooling. Also found in the Buick Skylark of the same era. Turbo management back then was very basic, water injection to fight off detonation. All of these motors were designed for leaded fuel, I would want to know if the heads still had the original valve seats, these babies need premium of today and more to live and even then can eat valves if stressed. Just don't fall in love with a near year Pontiac Tempest...
Good point about the pre-64 Pontiac Tempest. In 64 they became a normal car, no more of that front engine and rear transaxle nonsense. My first car was a 65 Tempest with a 2bbl 326. It was run down and had been in a bump or two, but it drove sweeter than anything I thought about replacing it with. I kept it until it was totaled, rear ended by a guy driving a Plymouth Road Runner. Then I bought a 68 VW.
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Old 04-24-11, 10:20 PM
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I was into Rover P6Bs during the '90s, and picked up quite a few aluminum 215/3.5 V8s. Those 215 aluminums aren't bad little engines, and were very popular in small hotrods and boats for a number of years. Plenty of go-faster parts are still available for them. If anyone on the left coast is needing BOP 215 parts, I still have a few here for sale or trade; Buick/Pontiac, Olds (slightly different block, and different heads on Olds version), and Rover 3.5s, early rope seal and later SD1. Will swap for good bike stuff, and I'll give more than you bargain for.. They need to find a new home.
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Old 04-24-11, 10:22 PM
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63 Olds F-85 was the 215 AL V8 as was the similiar Buick & Pontiac of the time. Drove one that was my grandmas for years in my HS youth. My younger brother was somewhat of a collector and had 3-4 of them, might still have them out in CO. He also built one 12.5:1, cammed etc. And yes it was sold to the Brits for Rover, think TR-8 too.

The turbo was an option and did use some "special" fluid injection system. Car was OK, wasn't particularily fast or anything. IIRC the trans was a bit different too, the auto shift pattern wasn't PRNDL. The older 61? had some sort of whippy driveshaft experiment thing going on if I remember right.
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Old 04-24-11, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Rabid Koala View Post
Then I bought a 68 VW.
Oh, you sorry, sorry sod.

(Not as sorry as me, who rebuilt a very rusty '61 VW crewcab into a... very rusty-but-running '61 VW crewcab.)
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Old 04-24-11, 10:53 PM
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Hey BG... I own a '62 Buick Sklylark coupe with the 190hp 215 (3.5l) V8...I previously owned a '62 Olds Jetfire coupe. The Turbo motor was only in the Jetfire and required "rocket fuel"...which was really just 50% methyl alcohol/50% distilled water...ie washer fluid.

Anyway, the 4dr F85 could be a 215 or a 198ci V-6 (cast iron motor). If it's the 215 it is similar to the Buick motor, but uses chamber volume as opposed to piston design to achieve different comp ratios. There were 155 and 190hp versions. Also, the Olds heads used one less headbolt. The Rover motors were based onthe Buick version....parts are interchangeable...BOP + Rover.

The moters can be built up to 5.2l...and there are UK vendors providing race blocks/heads/etc.

A common motor build is Buick 300 crank, 300 Aluminum heads ('64 only), Chevy smallblock small journal rods, Ford 2.3l turbo pistons, and a mild cam + rollers + adj. pushrods.

Check out www.aluminumv8.com and/or the Yahoo BOP compact and 215 groups...
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Old 04-24-11, 10:53 PM
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The best part about any car this old is that you can probably put your bike in the trunk with both wheels on. Mom car was a 69 Chrysler Newport and I put my 61cm Strawberry Racing Cycle in truck with saddle and both wheels on. My 62 SS impala was almost as big, but 3 road bikes with front wheels off and blankets, trunk closed.
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Old 04-24-11, 10:54 PM
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What was smaller for Olds than the F85? In '64 the F85 was available with a 330 CI engine for the 4-4-2 to compete with the Goat, which had a 59 CI advantage.

BGirl, This more like the four door?


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Old 04-24-11, 11:01 PM
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61-63 BOP compacts were completely different animals...Think more Corvair size.

Originally Posted by nwbikeman View Post
The best part about any car this old is that you can probably put your bike in the trunk with both wheels on. Mom car was a 69 Chrysler Newport and I put my 61cm Strawberry Racing Cycle in truck with saddle and both wheels on. My 62 SS impala was almost as big, but 3 road bikes with front wheels off and blankets, trunk closed.
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Old 04-24-11, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
...And yes it was sold to the Brits for Rover, think TR-8 too..
..And Morgan +8, MGB-V8, TVR, Marcos, and others. That little aluminum V8 engine was used in various forms for about 30+ years.
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Old 04-25-11, 01:29 AM
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I wouldn't bother. First, the price is kind of high for a 4-door car, which is less desirable than the 2-door models. Next, these cars were not very popular back in the days they were made, which is why so few of them survive today, finding parts will be difficult. For $3k you can still find an old 60's Mustang or Camaro. Sure, everyone has one, but that's because they were great cars. They are easy to find parts for, and nowadays you aren't likely to lose any money you put into fixing them up, as their resale value is continuing to appreciate.

Some models which you can still find for good prices are the 64 to 66 Thunderbird, 67 to 71 El Dorado, old Falcons, Darts, and Novas. Don't bother with the 4 door versions, for the reason previously mentioned.
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