Patria KMC
05-17-11, 09:13 PM
#1
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Patria KMC
I picked up a bike last night for a good price.
Shimano 500ex (exage) crankset with biopace rings
uncut pinarello fork (an obvious replacement)
procraft stem
shimano 600 downtube shifters and aero levers
Sachs Bars (says Made in Italy Brevettato)
Mavic MA50 wheelset with shimano exage hubs
the plastic cable guide that goes under the BB says made in france
Frame:
Heatube to top tube lug says BCM on the bottom (clearly i think this is a lug brand...not bike branding)
Head tube appears to have the number 60 on the left side bottom and a 73 stamped on the right.
There doesnt appear to be anything fancy about the lugs at all.
Gipeme rear dropouts
THe tubing is the strange part.
It has Mannesmann tubes
THe sticker for the tubes is still on the seat tube and it is german i believe.
The bottom of the sticker reads Patria WKC. I know this is a brand of bike..but it could be the plant where the tubes were made as well. IM not sure....but the more research i do leads me to believe that the brand is Patria WKC. For instance (https://www.flickr.com/photos/eisenhe...n/photostream/)
that example shows different decals. i know that the previous head tube decal on this on mine was a rectagle shaped decal because i can make out the outline of it at least i think i can.
anyone have any idea about these bikes? Id imagine an 80s vintage would be about right for this frame.
I got it from a person who got it and didnt know anything about it. IM wondering if someone brought it back from overseas and ended up at the thrift store. IM pretty sure the previous owner picked it up at the thrift store back in 2003 or 2004 (which was an incredible find). He put 1000s of miles on it and it needs a major cleaning. It is dirty...and i mean DIRTY. It will need everything overhauled and gone through....
i started going through it tonight. It is the dirtier than any car ive worked on. THick black grease everywhere and it wont come off
I need to stop and get another bottle of cleaner already.
If got it completely torn down with the exception of the wheels. That is whole other process and project. (mavic MA50)
One thing i cant get out is the damn headset cups. Ive tried a large socket and medium taps with a rubber mallet and nothing....top or bottom. ANyone have a trick here. These are stubborn...and i mean stubborn.
Here are some pics in no random order
Its ugly.....and pretty filthy:
Shimano 500ex (exage) crankset with biopace rings
uncut pinarello fork (an obvious replacement)
procraft stem
shimano 600 downtube shifters and aero levers
Sachs Bars (says Made in Italy Brevettato)
Mavic MA50 wheelset with shimano exage hubs
the plastic cable guide that goes under the BB says made in france
Frame:
Heatube to top tube lug says BCM on the bottom (clearly i think this is a lug brand...not bike branding)
Head tube appears to have the number 60 on the left side bottom and a 73 stamped on the right.
There doesnt appear to be anything fancy about the lugs at all.
Gipeme rear dropouts
THe tubing is the strange part.
It has Mannesmann tubes
THe sticker for the tubes is still on the seat tube and it is german i believe.
The bottom of the sticker reads Patria WKC. I know this is a brand of bike..but it could be the plant where the tubes were made as well. IM not sure....but the more research i do leads me to believe that the brand is Patria WKC. For instance (https://www.flickr.com/photos/eisenhe...n/photostream/)
that example shows different decals. i know that the previous head tube decal on this on mine was a rectagle shaped decal because i can make out the outline of it at least i think i can.
anyone have any idea about these bikes? Id imagine an 80s vintage would be about right for this frame.
I got it from a person who got it and didnt know anything about it. IM wondering if someone brought it back from overseas and ended up at the thrift store. IM pretty sure the previous owner picked it up at the thrift store back in 2003 or 2004 (which was an incredible find). He put 1000s of miles on it and it needs a major cleaning. It is dirty...and i mean DIRTY. It will need everything overhauled and gone through....
i started going through it tonight. It is the dirtier than any car ive worked on. THick black grease everywhere and it wont come off
I need to stop and get another bottle of cleaner already. If got it completely torn down with the exception of the wheels. That is whole other process and project. (mavic MA50)
One thing i cant get out is the damn headset cups. Ive tried a large socket and medium taps with a rubber mallet and nothing....top or bottom. ANyone have a trick here. These are stubborn...and i mean stubborn.
Here are some pics in no random order
Its ugly.....and pretty filthy:
05-18-11, 12:58 AM
#2
Cisalpinist
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Sure is German. Weird to see Mannesmann tubing branded as such - It's a very large metal conglomerate, one of the oldest in the world and they sell all kinds of steel for all kinds of purposes. For instance, Dedacciai and Oria tubing is al Mannesmann underneath. Please paint that fork though!
10-06-20, 11:45 AM
#6
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Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Hannover, Germany
Posts: 2
Bikes: Between 8 and 10. All vintage. RACING: Patria, Vipch, Bridgestone; TOURING/MOUNTAIN: STEVENS, Corratec, Maxcycles.
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Patria WKC bikes and Mannesmann tubing
Hello from Germany, found this searching for a decal, but maybe I can bring some light in this (already quite old) thread.
PATRIA WKC is an old german brand, first located in Solingen. The "WKC" is an abbreviation of the former owners Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & Cie. They produced bicycles up to 1953. In 1971 the brandname was sold to a company called Ernst Kleinebenne, who started the bicycle production in Leopoldshöhe, next to Bielefeld, a city with a long history of bike-producing companies. In the 70s and 80s, PATRIA bikes were well known for their quality and its owner, an egineer, often was ahead of time. PATRIA bikes in the 80s were the first to present MAGURA brakes, cardan shaft and belt transmissions in Germany.
Nowadays, PATRIA still exists in smaller scale, producing custom fitted and speciality bikes. Have a look on ther website: patria.net If you look under "Beratung und Fertigung" -> "Rahmenbau" you will see that they stil use "25CrMo4"-Steel, I guess internationally better known as "SAE 4130". This brings me to the second topic:
Mannesmann frames. The tubes were (and are still) produced bei Mannesmann Tubing ("Röhrenwerke") in Bielefeld-Brackwede, around 10km from PATRIA. As far as I remenber, there were 5 different qualities available (top-down):
- 34CrMo4 (SAE 4135) for the top racing bikes, frame thickness 0,8 - 0,6 - 0,8mm
- 25CrMo4 (SAE 4130) for racing (1,0 - 0,8 - 1,0mm) and better touring bikes (1,0mm without butting)
- 25CrMo4 in the 3 main tubes, rest Hi-Ten
- Titan-Bor- micro-alloyed steel (no idea what that was), used for entry-class racing bikes and touring-/city-bikes
- Hi-Ten steel, normal quality for standard bikes
scale : YOUR bike is the 3rd category, as ist says on the sticker: Main frame tubes 25CrMo4.
Besides PATRIA, the only german brand I know that used these tubes under the name of "Mannesmann" was "HERCULES", from 1988 on, for example for their models "Ventimiglia, Salerno, Monte Carlo, Ajaccio" etc. (see flickr.com/photos/velocifer/sets/72157629792158315/with/6921369084/ ).
But, as has already been mentioned, the Mannesmann tubes were used by other frame-makers like ORIA under their own name.
Hope, this helps...maybe a little late for the starter of the thread, but I guess there will be others interested.
Best regards and "gut Tritt" from Hannover!
PATRIA WKC is an old german brand, first located in Solingen. The "WKC" is an abbreviation of the former owners Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & Cie. They produced bicycles up to 1953. In 1971 the brandname was sold to a company called Ernst Kleinebenne, who started the bicycle production in Leopoldshöhe, next to Bielefeld, a city with a long history of bike-producing companies. In the 70s and 80s, PATRIA bikes were well known for their quality and its owner, an egineer, often was ahead of time. PATRIA bikes in the 80s were the first to present MAGURA brakes, cardan shaft and belt transmissions in Germany.
Nowadays, PATRIA still exists in smaller scale, producing custom fitted and speciality bikes. Have a look on ther website: patria.net If you look under "Beratung und Fertigung" -> "Rahmenbau" you will see that they stil use "25CrMo4"-Steel, I guess internationally better known as "SAE 4130". This brings me to the second topic:
Mannesmann frames. The tubes were (and are still) produced bei Mannesmann Tubing ("Röhrenwerke") in Bielefeld-Brackwede, around 10km from PATRIA. As far as I remenber, there were 5 different qualities available (top-down):
- 34CrMo4 (SAE 4135) for the top racing bikes, frame thickness 0,8 - 0,6 - 0,8mm
- 25CrMo4 (SAE 4130) for racing (1,0 - 0,8 - 1,0mm) and better touring bikes (1,0mm without butting)
- 25CrMo4 in the 3 main tubes, rest Hi-Ten
- Titan-Bor- micro-alloyed steel (no idea what that was), used for entry-class racing bikes and touring-/city-bikes
- Hi-Ten steel, normal quality for standard bikes
scale : YOUR bike is the 3rd category, as ist says on the sticker: Main frame tubes 25CrMo4.
Besides PATRIA, the only german brand I know that used these tubes under the name of "Mannesmann" was "HERCULES", from 1988 on, for example for their models "Ventimiglia, Salerno, Monte Carlo, Ajaccio" etc. (see flickr.com/photos/velocifer/sets/72157629792158315/with/6921369084/ ).
But, as has already been mentioned, the Mannesmann tubes were used by other frame-makers like ORIA under their own name.
Hope, this helps...maybe a little late for the starter of the thread, but I guess there will be others interested.
Best regards and "gut Tritt" from Hannover!
Last edited by arne68; 10-09-20 at 10:01 AM.
Likes For arne68:
09-16-22, 04:42 AM
#7
Newbie
Originally Posted by arne68
Hello from Germany, found this searching for a decal, but maybe I can bring some light in this (already quite old) thread.
PATRIA WKC is an old german brand, first located in Solingen. The "WKC" is an abbreviation of the former owners Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & Cie. They produced bicycles up to 1953. In 1971 the brandname was sold to a company called Ernst Kleinebenne, who started the bicycle production in Leopoldshöhe, next to Bielefeld, a city with a long history of bike-producing companies. In the 70s and 80s, PATRIA bikes were well known for their quality and its owner, an egineer, often was ahead of time. PATRIA bikes in the 80s were the first to present MAGURA brakes, cardan shaft and belt transmissions in Germany.
Nowadays, PATRIA still exists in smaller scale, producing custom fitted and speciality bikes. Have a look on ther website: patria.net If you look under "Beratung und Fertigung" -> "Rahmenbau" you will see that they stil use "25CrMo4"-Steel, I guess internationally better known as "SAE 4130". This brings me to the second topic:
Mannesmann frames. The tubes were (and are still) produced bei Mannesmann Tubing ("Röhrenwerke") in Bielefeld-Brackwede, around 10km from PATRIA. As far as I remenber, there were 5 different qualities available (top-down):
- 34CrMo4 (SAE 4135) for the top racing bikes, frame thickness 0,8 - 0,6 - 0,8mm
- 25CrMo4 (SAE 4130) for racing (1,0 - 0,8 - 1,0mm) and better touring bikes (1,0mm without butting)
- 25CrMo4 in the 3 main tubes, rest Hi-Ten
- Titan-Bor- micro-alloyed steel (no idea what that was), used for entry-class racing bikes and touring-/city-bikes
- Hi-Ten steel, normal quality for standard bikes
scale : YOUR bike is the 3rd category, as ist says on the sticker: Main frame tubes 25CrMo4.
Besides PATRIA, the only german brand I know that used these tubes under the name of "Mannesmann" was "HERCULES", from 1988 on, for example for their models "Ventimiglia, Salerno, Monte Carlo, Ajaccio" etc. (see flickr.com/photos/velocifer/sets/72157629792158315/with/6921369084/ ).
But, as has already been mentioned, the Mannesmann tubes were used by other frame-makers like ORIA under their own name.
Hope, this helps...maybe a little late for the starter of the thread, but I guess there will be others interested.
Best regards and "gut Tritt" from Hannover!
PATRIA WKC is an old german brand, first located in Solingen. The "WKC" is an abbreviation of the former owners Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & Cie. They produced bicycles up to 1953. In 1971 the brandname was sold to a company called Ernst Kleinebenne, who started the bicycle production in Leopoldshöhe, next to Bielefeld, a city with a long history of bike-producing companies. In the 70s and 80s, PATRIA bikes were well known for their quality and its owner, an egineer, often was ahead of time. PATRIA bikes in the 80s were the first to present MAGURA brakes, cardan shaft and belt transmissions in Germany.
Nowadays, PATRIA still exists in smaller scale, producing custom fitted and speciality bikes. Have a look on ther website: patria.net If you look under "Beratung und Fertigung" -> "Rahmenbau" you will see that they stil use "25CrMo4"-Steel, I guess internationally better known as "SAE 4130". This brings me to the second topic:
Mannesmann frames. The tubes were (and are still) produced bei Mannesmann Tubing ("Röhrenwerke") in Bielefeld-Brackwede, around 10km from PATRIA. As far as I remenber, there were 5 different qualities available (top-down):
- 34CrMo4 (SAE 4135) for the top racing bikes, frame thickness 0,8 - 0,6 - 0,8mm
- 25CrMo4 (SAE 4130) for racing (1,0 - 0,8 - 1,0mm) and better touring bikes (1,0mm without butting)
- 25CrMo4 in the 3 main tubes, rest Hi-Ten
- Titan-Bor- micro-alloyed steel (no idea what that was), used for entry-class racing bikes and touring-/city-bikes
- Hi-Ten steel, normal quality for standard bikes
scale : YOUR bike is the 3rd category, as ist says on the sticker: Main frame tubes 25CrMo4.
Besides PATRIA, the only german brand I know that used these tubes under the name of "Mannesmann" was "HERCULES", from 1988 on, for example for their models "Ventimiglia, Salerno, Monte Carlo, Ajaccio" etc. (see flickr.com/photos/velocifer/sets/72157629792158315/with/6921369084/ ).
But, as has already been mentioned, the Mannesmann tubes were used by other frame-makers like ORIA under their own name.
Hope, this helps...maybe a little late for the starter of the thread, but I guess there will be others interested.
Best regards and "gut Tritt" from Hannover!
I bought this Patria sports touring frame from Ebay in 2021 I think. It only has the Mannesmann frame tubing decal "25crmo4" and another decal on the downtube that says "Koniatube". Only my guess is that its from the late 80s. It has brake cable routing inside the top tube, 27.0 seat post and cantilever brakes. It fits around 35mm tires comfortably. Paint is still in fair condition, it seems very durable finish although a bit basic and industrial being just plain black. Certainly nothing like the flashy colourful Rossins and the like from that era!
A fantastic bicycle. I´ve built it up with indexed 7 speed Shimano. It is still going strong; it has handled well my commuting, gravel and even cyclocross duties. While not being super lightweight, I have absolutely no doubt it will last a long time.
It´s clearly made for some touring too though as it´s quite stiff.Just one interesting detail on Mannesmann; internet tells me the first Nord Stream gas pipeline built in the 70s from Russia to Germany(formerly both east and west I think) is made with Mannesmann tubing! So this is indicative of the huge scale of the company.
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