Opinions about New on Old
 

Hey,

Refurbishing a '79 Carlton Pro Am, and was wondering, what is the generally consensus on having new (modern) parts on an old frame? Does it breach the Classic Code, or is it an acceptable violation? ;)

Thanks, Oli

Where can I read up on this "Classic Code"?

Haha, i'm sorry, i should have mentioned i'm an incredible newbie, just came for a little insight into the classic community

There are plenty of threads on this topic...

To sum it up, few peope object to adding modern parts, many prefer that you keep the old parts in case you want to restore it to a period correct state.

I have a vintage bike where nothing but the frame and seat post are vintage... oh, and the cantilever brakes too.

My opinion is that if it makes you want to ride it more, then it absolutely belongs on your bike.

I'm fairly ambivalent about it.

http://velospace.org/user/8175

Hi Oli, Welcome! Your Pro-Am frame would have been one of the very last few Carlton's handmade in Worksop, the end of a 'Golden Era'. These frames were made to run 5 or 7 speed and so have a rear mech hanger on the drop out, but no brazed-on bracket for the front mech so you'll need a band-on (clamp on) front mech with the right size clamp if you want to fit a double chainring. You can run 5, 6 or 7 speed freewheels without any problems but to try to squeeze in a 9,10 or 11 speed without frame mods is asking for trouble - and why bother? The frame and fork are Reynolds 531 so it's a really nice light steel lugged frame with windowed lugs. It's your bike, so do what you want with it, but personally I'd build it up with a Cinelli, Ambrosio or TTT stem & bars, Campagnolo or Suntour gears and cranks, down tube shifters and aero brake levers with Weinmann side pull brakes - all from the late 70's although not rigidly period correct. My preference for wheels would be tubulars with small flange QR hubs - although a lot of people prefer the simplicity of clinchers and a Shimano HG 7 speed freewheel and chain. However, if you can find a Campagnolo Centaur or Daytona groupset from the early 2000's for a decent price, that would make an awesome build too. I wouldn't go any more modern than that though as there could be compatibility issues. Good luck, post photos on here please!

1. Build the bike so it suits you. If you don't want to ride it, what's the point?

2. While some old parts look cool and keep the vintage "feel," some parts were utter crap even when they were made i.e. I don't think anyone here is an overwhelming fan of Shimano 555 hubs.

3. Keep the parts you take off. You might find another use for them, or you might want to trade later. Something that doesn't work on this bike will work on your next vintage ride. (or the next one, or the next one...)

4. Vintage cred for new parts hinges entirely on whether or not you put a Brooks saddle on your ride, even if the correct vintage piece was plastic. :)

Do what ya gotta do, to make the bike suit your needs and desires. If it's a really iconic bke, and you like controversy, then you can post what you did to it and be a troll! :troll: :D

Components have improved more than frames, and frames generally outlast components, so putting newer parts on an older frame is a common practice. This is one reason I bought Capo #2 (actually, the third I have owned), which has almost all original components, whereas Capo #1 has been updated with a 1970s driveline.

If you don't like reaching down to shift downtube shifters, barcons will look more correct than brifters, with the added benefit of much greater mix-and-match flexibility.

Here's all the justification you'll ever need:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...STI-s-or-Ergos

I've found no one really minds. I've had the same fear as you, don't worry. And I agree keep your original parts incase you want to sell it.
Just don't hack a derailleur hanger or braze on off a frame.

Think of it this way. Is it possible or perhaps likely that the original owner would have replaced a part in the bike's original lifetime? If so, would the original owner likely have upgraded that part? In most cases the answer is yes. Were you to upgrade a part the same as the OO did, you'd be keeping the spirit of oldness, no question. Replace a worn Simplex derailleur with a Suntour? Sure.

And if you intend to ride the bike and your upgrade is intended to make it better for you, then that's the same thing. But if the bike is really special or rare then you should keep the original parts. In that case you are not only the bike's rider but also its caretaker.

Fork looks bent ;)

Oli, you're free to do anything you want to your bike, but keep everything you change. It's very easy to change parts on a bike so it's not a problem to put it back to original at some later date.

Chuck
Velo-Retro <http://www.velo-retro.com>
FOUR-FOR-THE-PRICE-OF-THREE T-SHIRT AND MUSETTE SALE.

Ride the tires off the bike and pass as many guys on plastic bikes you can, Tell'em steel is real. Do keep the old parts and welcom to the forum. It is of course tradition to post pictures of your bike, before and after.

I'm with RobbieTunes...I'm ambivalent but my personal style is to stay period correct....usually...

http://home.comcast.net/~khatfull/im.../opusfinal.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~khatfull/im...pusivdone4.jpg

I like my bikes and your bike period correct and would say so if asked for my opinion. Not good thinking though because if you remove your parts, I will want them. Khat, that bike is so nice.

I got caught in a little rain yesterday but ended loving the 28 miles I rode on this bike yesterday. This bike is original except the tires, chain, tape, hoods and saddle.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5061/...87d8cd28f7.jpg
27 021 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr

I have upgraded, or modernized, my share of bikes. I may have improved some, too, but I'm not so sure about that. Many times I've changed a bike to entirely modern components and ridden it that way for a while (until something broke), then changed it back to the way it started.

Bottom line, for me, is that I have absolutely no objection to your plans to modernize the bike, but I'm not at all sure you're going to improve it, really.

This^^ It's similar to a "resto-mod" car. Beautifully restored body with modern underpinnings. The best of both worlds in my opinion.

Oli, While sincerely dedicated to the preservation of old bicycles, this is one of the more casual vintage bicycle forums WRT originality. Bikes should be ridden, not kept pristine for display. Build it as you wish keeping within the parameters of your rear dropout spacing is my suggestion.

Brad

I'm of the opinion that it's your bike and you should be able to do whatever you wish with it. It's a good idea to preserve a bike by not doing anything irrevocable and keeping all the original parts but in the end it is just a bike, a machine -and machines are made to be used -not put on an altar and worshiped.

Start by acquiring decent tools and getting a good book like Glenn's and doing research online so you know what you are doing and don't mistakenly destroy stuff. But if one decides to modify something irrevocably and goes into it eyes wide open about the repercussions regarding collectibility and future worth then just do it.

Almost all of these bikes are not THAT rare or particularly special regardless of what many here might say. The factories made millions of old bikes during the 20th century and most of them were abused and used up anyway by consumers without any thought for future generations of C&V colletors. Tons of scrap was melted down when bikes ended up in dumpsters. What's the big deal if someone decides to modify an older bike? As long as it is given a new life I see absolutely no harm in it.

Thank you everyone, was surprised at the feedback i got actually! But i will heed warnings and be very careful about this, being my first bike project, i'm going to take my sweet time and do it right. I think i'll fit new things on it so i can get riding, then spend my spare time fixing up the old parts and refitting when i have completed them,

Thanks again, Oli

EDIT: Forgot to say that all the bikes posted here are TRULY beautiful, and oldpedaller, thanks for the indepth suggestions, will definately take them on board, and will be sure to post my pics when done (or maybe even set up a blog about the process, if anyone would care?) :)

It is your bike. Do what makes you want to ride it.
I generally agree with the philosophy of not hacking braze-ons (even though I'm guilty of having done it and am happy with the results).

You can have the frame re-spaced pretty easily to 130 or 132.5mm to accommodate modern drive trains.

Meant to ask, does anyone know where to look to get classic partsin the UK? I never knew new parts were so expensive...

Bike jumbles, neighbour's garage/shed clearances, CTC magazine for sale ads, e-bay. Best thing is to find some 'proper' bike shops (the sort where the guys have greasy fingers) and hang around, buy a few cables and when they aren't serving anyone, start a conversation. Don't use the word Classic, just ask if they've got any old racing bike parts, you've got an old 70's bike you want to make rideable. The answer will probably be No, but don't give up, call in from time to time and sooner or later they might have a complete bike or pair of displaced wheels to dispose of. Picked up a couple of good donors that way and amassed a stock of new cables, washers, bottle bolts. I also keep a sharp eye out when going to the Council recycling site and try to get to people with bikes on board before they chuck them. I always offer a fiver and have always brought the bike home for free - to my wife's disgust! Also skips where buildings are being cleared/developed. I always find the owner and ask if I can have the bike(s) in the skip - and every time I've been told to take as much as I want, the more the better - it means they don't have to pay for as many skips. I've just made friends with the local metal recycling guys - they had a lot of washing machines, kid's MTB's and tangled up with this lot three really nice racing bikes on board their truck - too late to save those but they've promised to drop off any racing bikes in my front garden in future as these don't weigh much so aren't really worth them carrying - the space on board is more financially viable when filled with something heavier! I'm hoping they come through, the description of some of the bikes they've scrapped this year so far made my mouth water. It's best if you're not in a hurry because this way you can score a lot of stuff for free - which in the current UK economy with petrol at £1.38 per litre is pretty much essential! Good luck mate.