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Stolen Bike De Rosa Primato

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Stolen Bike De Rosa Primato

Old 05-20-11, 09:01 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
I don't care who the member is, I've stuck stolen bike threads before for other members (in SS/FG, for example), and will for even more. I'd even do it for you, if you lost a Huffy if you really needed me to (Not that I'm implying you own a Huffy, either, it's an example)..

DO you really begrudge me trying to help a member out?
Thank you, Tom.
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Old 05-20-11, 11:05 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
I think what Keith is asking has more to do with the stickies we haven't seen, not this one.
It appears he's asking more of a procedural, or policy question, than specifically about this bike.
Thank you RobbieTunes, you articulated perfectly what I was getting at.
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Old 05-21-11, 05:16 AM
  #53  
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Stolen bike threads are fine with me. The more eyes looking for missing bikes, the better.
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Old 05-21-11, 05:54 PM
  #54  
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It is really scary S*** that someone dared to come into your place to steal your precious or whatever. Every time I hear about these things even though not happening to myself, I felt violated. If this happens to me & I caught the guy, he will not see daylight again.
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Old 05-21-11, 07:09 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by JetWave View Post
It is really scary S*** that someone dared to come into your place to steal your precious or whatever. Every time I hear about these things even though not happening to myself, I felt violated. If this happens to me & I caught the guy, he will not see daylight again.
No, no, you have to let him see daylight....with his remaining eye....as you shovel dirt into it.
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Old 05-21-11, 07:53 PM
  #56  
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OFG

Just saw this. So sorry! Hope you find it. I am on Jaxed all the so I will keep an eye open but most likely this will be sold at a flea market or garage sale at least in the SF bay area. We all know where to go check. Maybe the same in Phoenix?
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Old 05-22-11, 12:51 AM
  #57  
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I am a pretty observant and security conscious kinda guy and as a person who has been involved with the type of person(albeit on the other side) I can say that it usually is a person with previous knowledge of the item to perp a crime of this type. More than likely had their eye on it for some time, had a buyer already in the wings and was just waiting for the opportunity. But nonetheless, it won't help OFG knowing what type of perp did the deed. Only retrieval and justice can heal that wound. It does awaken the rest of us to the quickness that a criminal can be capable of. We thus must learn from the act and reassess our own security and act accordingly. OFG, I do hope you are successful in your redemption and justice and it would do this community a world of good if that comes from the quick eye and help of a fellow member!
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Old 05-22-11, 10:28 AM
  #58  
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In AZ, it's pretty bold for someone to walk into someones place uninvited and not get shot for it. Been riding around the west side of PHX and keeping an eye out for it. I agree with Robbie, a shovel on this bum is minimal.
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Old 05-22-11, 04:05 PM
  #59  
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Blows. Did I miss how this happened exactly?
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Old 05-22-11, 08:43 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by realestvin7 View Post
Blows. Did I miss how this happened exactly?
Short version:

Working in my garage on Wednesday, about noon. I live in a private town home community, about 80 units. I went from my attached garage to the unit to check email, dog, grab some water, walked back out to the garage, bike taken down from the hooks, over a car. I saw a 30ish WM walking down the street shortly before, well dressed, talking on a cell phone. He was the likely thief, and could be recognized.

I believe it was a targeted theft (I believe). I have not been selling bikes from my home in PHX, so this is someone who knows a neighbor, or has seen me leaving my complex.

Google 'stolen de rosa primato'. It won't be easy to unload.

Every bike shop in Phoenix and Tucson has been notified. I have alerts set up to notify me if any De Rosa goes up for sale anywhere in the world.

All I can hope for is that my friends and acquaintances spread the word, and post to social media. I'm an old guy, and not on Facebook/Twitter.

So far, the response, mostly, has been humbling, overwhelming, and is greatly appreciated.

Any of you are welcome to my place anytime for a drink and some food, and a bike ride to remember. You can even ride any of the bikes I may still have left.

Some of my best friends in the world I have met right here. Thanks, all.

Once again, this is the bike and info:

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Old 05-22-11, 08:51 PM
  #61  
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Man, not a single part on that bike will be easy for the thief to unload now. Good.

Both the bike and parts should be relatively easy to track if the typical vessels are used to try and sell them.

He'll either have to spray bomb it and try and ride it, hopefully without drawing attention, or try to unload it on someone he knows.
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Old 05-23-11, 01:37 AM
  #62  
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John, sorry to hear this. My guess is that this is a theft of opportunity and whoever did it may not have been aware of the value of the bike. I had this same thing happen to me in Denver.

Then, how do you increase the probability of getting the bike back. Odds are it is someone in your neighborhood, or with a relationship with it. I assume you have already file a police report. How about: 1) posting a CL ad with reward; 2) HOA email with reward; or 3) neighborhood posters with reward?
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Old 05-23-11, 01:52 AM
  #63  
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Damn that's a nice looking bike. Sorry to hear I've had 2 bikes stolen but they both were nothing like this.

How much would a bike like that sell for?
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Old 05-23-11, 06:14 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by twobadfish View Post
How much would a bike like that sell for?
That's the crux of the situation, and we're working on it......
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Old 05-23-11, 06:50 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by twobadfish View Post
How much would a bike like that sell for?
Frameset + group + wheels + intagibles = sale price.
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Old 05-23-11, 07:36 AM
  #66  
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Robbie can correct me, but the crux of the matter would be replacement value, not what you may be able to sell it for. Finding another mint Primato frame is no easy task. BBM saw this frame up close, since he picked it up for me. It was basically in showroom condition. I replaced the original 8 speed with 10 speed. It's easy to come up with price of that, same with the wheels and everything else on the bike. The frame is the problem.

A new Neo Primato is not the same bike, and frankly, the ones I've seen have shoddy workmanship. What do you compare it to? A Pegoretti Luigino? A Richard Sachs? Dave Kirk? I know of no one offering an EL OS frameset today. Spirit would be the closest.

There is something magical in the ride of an EL OS Primato, even with the IC lugs . It compares to nothing I've ever ridden.
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Old 05-23-11, 07:52 AM
  #67  
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Replacement value on that is nearly impossible...because they just don't come up for sale much (I've been trying!). I'd probably give the dollar number from a neo-Primato and just hold out until the right Primato came up.

I honestly think you're getting this back...it's too distinct to stay underground long.
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Old 05-23-11, 08:16 AM
  #68  
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I'm sorry to hear about the loss, OFG. Not likely that it will end up in my area, but I will keep my eyes open.

Does anyone know the probability of what would happen to a bike of this level? Will it get hung on someones wall, or stripped and sold for parts, or hidden for a period of time and then ridden, etc?

I hope you get it back, and the thief is brought to some proper form of justice.
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Old 05-23-11, 09:22 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Old Fat Guy View Post
Robbie can correct me, but the crux of the matter would be replacement value, not what you may be able to sell it for. Finding another mint Primato frame is no easy task. BBM saw this frame up close, since he picked it up for me. It was basically in showroom condition. I replaced the original 8 speed with 10 speed. It's easy to come up with price of that, same with the wheels and everything else on the bike. The frame is the problem.

A new Neo Primato is not the same bike, and frankly, the ones I've seen have shoddy workmanship. What do you compare it to? A Pegoretti Luigino? A Richard Sachs? Dave Kirk? I know of no one offering an EL OS frameset today. Spirit would be the closest.

There is something magical in the ride of an EL OS Primato, even with the IC lugs . It compares to nothing I've ever ridden.
The Primato I have may be the most relevant example of a bike similar to yours John. Candy apple red with chrome head tube lugs, I bought it about two and a half years ago and I spent $2650 for it. I think mine might be the same exact size as yours. When I bought it, it had full Campy 8-speed in very good condition and the bike had minimal miles. Of particular note is the fact that it also had sherriff star hubs with an 8-speed freewheel. The hubs may have inflated the price slightly. I have since removed and sold the wheelset and replaced with Mavic Reflex rims with Record hubs, new Corsa EVO tires and a Record 8-speed cassette. I think your bike would certainly fall into the $2250 to $2500 range but that does not account for the 10-speed group that you have on there. I can't comment on how much that would affect the price. I'd be happy to send you pictures if you want to have a better look. If I can help out with any valuation procedure that you need to deal with please email me and I will be happy to help.

Bob

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Old 05-23-11, 10:04 AM
  #70  
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I keep checking back with the hope that I'll read some good news.
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Old 05-23-11, 10:55 AM
  #71  
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Replacement value is the issue, in the end. How to figure that can come across in more ways than one:
1-The build cost, which has it's own problems. A gifted part or frame, for example, would penalize the owner on value. An exorbitant price paid for the frame or a component would likewise be unrealistic. Still, I stick with an adjusted build cost, if I can, and I'll say why lower down.
2-The new cost of a similar bike, which brings up the problem: define "similar." In this case, knowing the current frames offered may not be comparable, I'd consider a custom frame (Della Santos, for example) and then the components, which are easier to value.

Most states require a replacement cost be established, and then an actual cash value be paid until actual repair or replacement is completed. In this case, I'd opine that replacment cost and actual cash value are pretty darn the same thing.

I like the build cost, adjusted.
You create a spreadsheet, and you lay out the entire build, down to rim strips and wrap.
You leave out labor until the end. You don't exaggerate.
You list the item, individually, and what you think you paid for it, in cash or trade value.
Then, you adjust it +/- to reflect whether you think you got it for a much lower value than market, or more.
What you've just done is establish what you paid, plus what you think you'd have paid if you didn't get a deal or overpay.
Then you add in your labor operations. You do not add in freeing a stuck seatpost, or stripping old components, or even cleaning them.
You do add the build labor, to include chasing threads, repacking bearings, and the labor to build the bike, even to do final adjustments.
Now, instead of a figure out of thin air, you have a specific build cost (yours) and a general build cost (adjusted).
Between the two lie your value, and the statutory guidelines would favor the general build cost.
Your build cost tends to support the general build cost, because it is actual evidence that a bike was built.

After that, you negotiate. Information helps. Receipts help, but few people have them and adjusters know that; they're just hungry for file documentation they can use if they're second-guessed, which happens all the time. The wealth of knowledge here can assist any adjuster, and we have a PM system that allows us to ask each other.

Again, there's little statutory guidelines for rarity, because it's impossible to quantify. An heirloom diamond ring is worth what a similar diamond ring would cost to buy new, given the same components. Of course, it's worth more to the owner, but the statutes are cold and impersonal, and have to be. It's the same way with the bike, so you do everything you can to compare apples to apples. That's why I mentioned a custom frame; it may actually be the only accurate substitute, and it's STILL not a Primato like that one.

As far as khatful's post, really, I'm sure he was asking about policy, and it may have come off personal. Look at any of his previous posts, or all 5,000 of them; he's an advocate, and was simply curious, and in no way disagrees with the posting of the sticky. I think Siu Blue Wind's response was a nice explanation that got to the matter at hand; it certainly answered the questions and now I know, and am glad of it.
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Old 05-23-11, 11:46 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Old Fat Guy View Post
Robbie can correct me, but the crux of the matter would be replacement value, not what you may be able to sell it for. Finding another mint Primato frame is no easy task. BBM saw this frame up close, since he picked it up for me. It was basically in showroom condition. I replaced the original 8 speed with 10 speed. It's easy to come up with price of that, same with the wheels and everything else on the bike. The frame is the problem.

A new Neo Primato is not the same bike, and frankly, the ones I've seen have shoddy workmanship. What do you compare it to? A Pegoretti Luigino? A Richard Sachs? Dave Kirk? I know of no one offering an EL OS frameset today. Spirit would be the closest.

There is something magical in the ride of an EL OS Primato, even with the IC lugs . It compares to nothing I've ever ridden.
At the very least, this bad news and subsequent discussion serve the purpose of educating some of the rest of us.

For example -- could someone please explain what "EL OS" and "IC" mean in this context? Also, OFG, what model year is your Primato? Are frames of its vintage that much different than the new Neo Primato? I'm asking because I've never seen these kinds of bikes anywhere but as photos here on this forum.

And, to admit further ignorance, I have no idea who Richard Sachs or Dave Kirk are, other than the context of the post indicating that they are framebuilders of some note.
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Old 05-23-11, 12:11 PM
  #73  
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OK, never mind, I looked up "Columbus tubing" and learned EL = extra leggeri or extra light, OS = oversized, and IC = investment cast.
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Old 05-23-11, 05:21 PM
  #74  
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This may help: http://drunkcyclist.com/2011/05/23/s...-rosa-primato/
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Old 05-23-11, 05:31 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Old Fat Guy View Post
A new Neo Primato is not the same bike, and frankly, the ones I've seen have shoddy workmanship. What do you compare it to? A Pegoretti Luigino? A Richard Sachs? Dave Kirk? I know of no one offering an EL OS frameset today. Spirit would be the closest.
Sachs and Kirk are another level of workmanship, IMO. That said, there are some EL OS Guerciotti frames here on closeout:

http://www.smartcycles.com/frame_closeouts_list.htm

Though they're fillet brazed. And not De Rosa. But maybe some basis for a very rough comparison, if you add $$$ for De Rosa vaule and lugged construction.
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