Puget Pounder

True, but we are moving into another kind of sellers here: the people who want some space in their apartment, not the hustlers.

Amesja

Everything is for sale -and everyone has the right to buy and sell whatever they want and at any condition IMHO. There is room for a whole lot of Freedom in this world if people didn't get so rigid about things. Nothing wrong with buying low and selling high. It's the American Dream.

Fast Cloud

Thank you sir...I couldn't have put it better. I dare say 90% of my flips are DKOs. Why?? Because I'm no great bike mechanic yet. I am a great washer, waxer, tire changer, bar taper saddle changer and so on. The money I make buys the bikes I want from other flippers or whomever. I don't mind somebody making a buck on a flip. If I did, I'd be a hypocrit. I am honest though...If a bike needs work, I say so in the ad....PERIOD.

Puget Pounder

Where in my original post did it say that flipping is not allowed? Or that someone should never make a money on their flip?

You're trying to argue about something that I am not arguing about. I just wanted you to realize that it's not the buying low/selling high concept that gets me. Or the condition. It's the deliberate lying. Maybe it struck a nerve when he smacked the hammer with a rim too to get rid of a wobble. Or maybe it was simply my nerves firing from the loud steel-steel impact. Whatever it was, I guess it doesn't really matter.

I like how you capitalized freedom. Touché.

And yes, the American Dream argument. Moral of the story: it's ok to lie and cheat as long as someone makes some coins, right? Horatio Alger's newest novel from the dead: "Ragged Dick: The Life of a Dishonest Flipper"

Thumpic

the re-sellers that just buy cheap and sell high; with no re-hab really piss me off. They are a danger to the general public too. Bent forks; bent frames...forks on backwards...I've seen it all. I called one guy out about his fork being on backwards and he said if I bought it I could put in on any way I wanted. He has posted as many as 33 bikes at once. I flag them as often as possible. There was another guy (that I know) that does a GREAT job rehabbing. His stuff is great; but he posted one with an obviously bent fork. He had always been too close to the bike to see it. Only when he posted the pics could you see the bent fork. He got caught with a bad flip but refused to pull the ad or repair the bike. I just don't get it.

mapleleafs-13 

There were dolphins on that show? all i remember about flipper is:



i still haven't seen those dolphins you speak of.....nor do i know what they taste like or want to know what they taste like

mapleleafs-13 

i agree with jeepr and auchencrow, i've probably hit the 20 bike flip mark already in the last 2 months, but every bike was cleaned down, parts changed, everything from chains, to brakes, to cables, taking apart bb's to wraps to you name it. I wouldn't send anything out that i wouldn't ride, i make sure everything rides smooth and doesn't make funny noises, the funny part is it bothers me if something isn't running well. I usually try to look at it from a buyers point of view.

A few ppl on this MB have seen my ads and so on and they would definately say that i put alot of work into my stuff too.

And yes the DKO flippers are brutal!!!

Pars 

I always have trouble going back and forth between here and a couple of audio forums I frequent. Here, flipping (at least in the good way where you actually fix the bike and provide a real ready to ride item) is revered. There, it will get you banned. Since I've been there longer than here, the word "flipping" still has a negative connotation to me, but if done properly, I see nothing bad about it.

Captain Blight

Yes, it does. This is because I go to some pains to make everything run smoothly--and if I don't fix something, I go to some pains to make sure the potential customer knows that something's not as it should be.

To do otherwise is dishonest, and I would expect my father to reach out of his grave to slap me if I were dishonest in a business transaction. Taking advantage of the ignorance of others is doubly dishonest, and in my mind, borderline illegal.

ColonelJLloyd 

That's what bothers me the most. That's just callous and arseholish.

Sometimes it's nice to eat it. I like sweetbreads.

Captain Blight

I like the offal analogy. If you can take something that would otherwise be discarded as disgusting or useless, and apply a little care and the right skills, you can make something that's just sublime. Don't care about it, or use bad technique, and all you've done is make more garbage.

I braised a pork tongue the other night, it was really, really gooooooood.

cudak888 

I don't mind buying a basket case - when it's advertised as such. I do mind when someone tries to sell me a "mint-condition" pretzel that was a bicycle in a former life.

Same picture, pasted to a background from a stock-photography site and flipped 180 degrees. What else do you want to wager was photoshopped, besides "everything?"

-Kurt

ColonelJLloyd 

Dos pastor, dos carnitas, e dos lengua, por favor. Gracias.

cudak888 

Dos pastor? Pastor Bob y que?

-Kurt

ColonelJLloyd 

randyjawa 

Hardly and I am not even American. Buy low and sell high is the capitalist's dream and there is nothing national, or country loving about it! In fact, there is an adage about it - "the pursuit of money is the root of all evil". Think about that and in context with this thread. That is the issue here, not the fact that someone buys and sells anything.

Three times I have started to respond to this thread. I am a flipper. I am a scavenger. I help people, who can't find old bikes, find them. I help clean up Mother Earth. I help to preserve a bit of Velo history. I have fun doing it. And I make a profit, not much of one, but a profit, none the less.

But my purpose is to have fun and help others do the same. Lucky for me I make a small wage doing it. And, if I get lucky, find a bike for fifty bucks and sell it tomorrow for $1500, good for me. I have still done all of the above, except for the small wage thing.

I try to always be an honest guy. I used to build management systems for large companies and one thing I learned very early in doing so was to develop an understanding of what the purpose of business was/is/and always should be - to help others. The purpose of business is not to make a profit. Sadly, most people think that making money is the purpose of business and that is ruining the planet.

As for preparing a bicycle for road use and being liable if something goes wrong - Big Danger! For both the seller and the buyer.

Would I sell a piece of bent up junk to make a buck? Of course I would, but not without disclosing the damage. If the next guy knows about the problems and still wants to buy, so be it. Nothing wrong with that either, is there? Again, there is no dishonesty. Honestly!

Not even sure I should post this but it is how I feel.

soonerbills

I just can not sell a bike before I go through them 100%. I know I am not going to get anything for my labor. If I had to recoup the labor I would have to add $100 to every bike even then I would be losing. For me, I find the act of doing semi-restorations on bikes satisfying. I always replace the common consumable and will do minor upgrades. Pretty much I build them like I was going to keep them which has happened occasionally. Because of my very rural location and distance from a large city and also because the local Craigslist is swamped with flippers like those mentioned above, my bikes tend to be higher priced. I mostly have to be very patient and firm on my sales but it has worked for me. I seem to get a a better crowd calling me and not so much of the tire kickers and low ballers. I do get them somewhat but I think because I list with what I view as very honest, descriptive ads and lots of big clear pics it weeds them out pretty good.
It kills me to see some of the junk listed and the clearly bogus ads posted. You almost want to take a shower after reading them. But they must be selling because the same sellers are always listing more of their junk every week. I think I too don't like the term flipper. I consider myself as a guy offering nice usable bikes for sale and flippers as the trash who won't even take the time to air up a tire before they list them.
There is one flipper who resorted to offering a number of the crap he can't sell as "vintage bike lots". I use the vintage term for many of my bikes and it pains me to see those ads!

frantik

i think it's better to simply put the year/decade instead of using the word vintage..

thinktubes 

Free enterprise rules!!!

Amesja

"Vintage" sells bikes right now. Not putting it in is just throwing away money when listing a bike on CL if the bike is over 10 years old. All the bikes I am selling ARE vintage and I'm not going to leave the term out when the people who are looking to buy my bikes are looking for a "vintage" bike.

What really annoys me is when people (flippers and 1-time sellers alike) list everything is "Rare." When I see someone listing an old Raleigh Sports as 'Rare" I want to slap them up. Just because something is 40+ years old doesn't in any way make them "Rare."

LOL

Amesja

I disagree heartily with that sentiment. I feel the root of all evil is theft -not money. Money is wealth and to assert that wealth is evil is anathema to my way of thinking. I understand that some people eschew wealth (some people are naturals at this) for aesthetic reasons but there is nothing wrong with wealth which helps assure a continued source of food, shelter, and other necessary items for the continuation of life and the enjoyment thereof.

Wealth is created by adding value to natural objects. It's a matter of making the world a little better by improving the area and objects around you little by littl. One can add value to the world in many ways and create wealth. Some people clean up junk and restore it to value. Others do service that makes other people happy. Value is judged by the market and by what someone will pay in goods and services to trade in common agreement in a free exchange of goods where everyone is happy with the outcome. If I buy a bike from a local DKO flipper for $50 that she found in the scrap dumpster destined for the smelter we are both happy. I found a new project and she made a cool $50. How is this evil? We both feel we got a good deal and everyone is happy. She takes the money to buy food for her kids and I will take the money I make off of the profits I make after selling the same bike for $250 (after putting another $60-70 in parts and much labor into it) and buy stuff for my wife.

I can't see how anyone could say that "money is the root of all evil" except someone who feels they don't have enough of it and those who do are "evil." I can not begrudge anyone making money as long as they are not engaging in theft. Theft is evil -money is not.

auchencrow

How's this?

FS - Rare Vintage bike - mint condition! - $400

Rare mint condition road bike, found in barn.
Would make a great fixie.
Tires need air.



PS- Am I being too forthright by admitting the tires need air?

frantik

sup I got $20 cash tex me if u down 2 sell

Amesja

That vintage-correct air is really difficult to obtain so give him a break on that one...

randyjawa 

Admittedly, I modified the sentiment but I still believe strongly that it is true. Far more often than not, when I get cheated, money and the pursuit of it is involved. And do not get me wrong, I am not a Bible thump-er.

Not sure what you mean by that. I think a leaf is a pretty valuable item that needs no modification to achieve its value. The same goes for a breath of fresh air or a sip of clean water. And the funny thing is, in part due to the creating of wealth, these three things are now on the endangered species list. That's kinda evil even if there was no intent to be evil.

I am sure this is just me, but I am not too happy with the outcome that we are all forced to live with these days - high crime, pollution, epidemic illness, war, monopolies demanding more for the same thing each day - gasoline being a perfect example, drug abuse, and purchased governments... Are these the things you are talking about when you mention happy about the outcome?


I think Mother Earth was doing just fine, until we started making the world a little better by improving (modifying for our own pleasure or purpose) what she has already created. Second, who is the one who decides what is improvement. The oil company CEO or me? I do hope it is me!

What does wealth have to do with money? My wealth is my family, my health, my service to others and probably a host of other things as well. But I never measure my worth (wealth) in dollars and cents.

Please do not be offended by my take on this subject. I am an old guy who cannot help but laugh at the arrogant folly of mankind. Sadly, the horrible results of our arrogance is destroying all that we are not mature enough to hold dear.