mkeller234

Yes, and my brother is proof!! He literally lived in a stairwell landing, no joke.... yet he took a trip through Michigan just to tour the breweries.

Oh, and he would love a bottle of "End of History", but he'd probably settle for Sink the bismark too. I think End of History will set you back 700 dollars or so... if it was even still available.

Ediblestarfish

Because, ya know, the product and rhetoric can be seperated. They aren't both or nothing. The product stands well enough on its own for more than a few people, irregardless of wether or not we listen to grant's rants.

Sheesh, I expected you of all to figure that one out.

RJM

True, Rivs bikes stand on their own without Grant's opinions written on the site, in fact when he retires and gives over the company to his employees (something that he has written about), I suspect the company continues to do fine. They aren't the "cheap hipster beer" equivalent of the bike world; they are really solid, well thought out bikes, nothing cheap about them. My Hillborne is really a great bike, comfortable, versatile and still zippy, would be an excellent only bike and my atlantis does exactly what a touring bike should do, does it comfortably, and still looks good doing it. I just really don't get the hate for Rivendell's products, but I guess I am attracted to pompous hogwash.

mkeller234

Same thing happens with Apple products and Steve Jobs.

ScottRyder 

Heh, love these threads ..

I think I'm one of the few people who've posted on this thread who has actually owned AND ridden a Rivendell. I'll tell you what first caught my eye about Grant & Co. First, a friend owned one of the early models and I got to ride it, loved it. The handling, the comfort, the paint ..... it certainly seemed well crafted to me. I followed the website for awhile, reading some of the articles when I got the chance. He pokes fun at a lot of stuff. I was intrigued by Grant's attitude that bicycling should be fun & comfortable ..... no special shoes, no special clothing, just get out there and ride. Sounded good to me .. it's what I did already.

I eventually bought my first Riv, a Blériot, and found it to be one of the nicest bikes I've ridden .. it handled pannier weight in the rear like no other bicycle that I've toured on. But I was one of those people that had to sell. The pristine one on eBay or CL that looked like it had never been ridden ..... it went due the economy, other priorities, etc. Funny, you sell a bike in like-new condition you're labeled a poser. You sell your car in the same condition and you receive accolades .

Kool Aid .. we joke about drinking Grant's Kool Aid. I see more people drinking the racing/lycra beverage than anything else. Look what they're selling at most shops for clothing .. You're sold a bag of goods to make it look like you're a pro racer. Not for fun, not for enjoyment but to look like a "serious cyclist ".

However, I can be one of the first people to make fun of their product line .. it's sometimes downright bizarre. The fisherman's hat! I'm from Gloucester, home of the Gorton's Fisherman. Even I wouldn't wear one of those on a bike. Not sure the fisherman wear those anymore either .. even on a boat. A fisherman would be all over the Rivendell hooded sweatshirt tho .. check it out and read the ways to use it. That describes me perfectly.

Rivendell is a lot like Apple. New ideas, somewhat expensive, a figurehead CEO who's not afraid to share his vision, whether right of wrong. And a lot of people complaining about them who've never used their product.

Enjoy the day, I've got to go convince my friend Rich to sell his Blériot to me.

Scott

mkeller234

Nice post Scott! Even though these threads are crazy, I have to say there have been some outstanding posts recently. Mine, not so much... but I am enjoying the good ones.

newenglandbike

I think I'd rather kill the people behind that "end of history" beer, than a snake.

strock 

I love these threads, too, although, like some others, I don't always understand what motivates the extreme hostility toward GP and Riv. If you don't like what Grant is selling (both literally and figuratively), don't buy it. It's not as though you're part of a captive audience. Don't like his preaching? Don't read it. I enjoy reading it occasionally, partly because I agree with much of what Grant says, and partly because he says it in a way that I find entertaining rather than annoying even when I think he's completely off base. We are talking about bicycles, here, right? I mean, it's not like the fate of one's eternal soul is at stake.

I'm almost afraid to admit it, but I recently acquired a used Atlantis frameset in very good to excellent condition for less than half the price of a new one. (Yeah, it was still expensive.) Built it up with parts I already had on hand. Haven't had the chance yet to ride it a lot, but so far I couldn't be happier. What I like about it: the steel frame, the lugs, the paint job, the fairly relaxed geometry, the ability to run really wide tires even with fenders, and so forth. What I don't like about it: nothing. To me, it looks great and, based on my limited experience with it, rides beautifully. It's a versatile bike, and since I have a very small stable (more like a stall), this is important to me.

The Atlantis is not a vintage bike. It wasn't cheap. But I don't have either the time or the inclination to scour CL or yard/garage sales. People don't put used bikes by the curb because there's no bulk garbage pickup in my area. There's no dump to comb through, either. Plus, I live close enough to New York City and its suburbs that local prices are pretty inflated. So, the odds of me finding a high-quality, inexpensive vintage bike that will have the same attributes as the Atlantis are not all that high.

Not trying to justify my purchase, 'cause in the end I'm the only one who can decide whether or not it was the right one for me. Just trying to explain why one person elected to buy a Riv.

fender1

People who ride, rather than collect bikes and post about them on the internet 21,912 times.......

KonAaron Snake 

OH DEAR LORD!

The laughs...they HURT!

I love ya' Kurt, but riding a Riv is really no more silly than riding around on a chrome Paramount, or a Motorola Merckx. Yeah - Riv has some BS marketing, it's MARKETING! People are paying a premium for pretty lugs...didn't they do that with Hetchins? I don't see folks obsessing over brilliant stays, and from my understanding, that's mostly marketing BS too. Colnagos are mass produced, sourced, etc...but people still buy them. Not every Colnago thread become an Ernesto pinata.

I'm not saying I'd buy a new Riv, or that I'd pay attention to GP's opinions on 11sp drive trains, but he builds some practical and cool bikes that make sense for a lot of folks. If he gets a little more money for name value and pretty lugs, so be it. Colnago gets a premium for name value and clovers.

I guess what I'm saying is...we all have our likes, dislikes, motivations and eccentricities. Personally, I think IGH is an amazingly silly waste of time, but others love it. Others think the same about Ergos, or Delta brakes. It's ok to pay for things you like or that make you happy. It's ok to like things that are pretty. We all do it...how many of us approach cycling from a strictly utilitarian view point? I'd consider those that do to be silly for missing the JOY in having a beautiful bike that makes you happy. As BBM says, life is too short to ride ugly bikes.

Bottom line - to answer the OP, no, that's nothing like what Riv does. Next question?

MrEss

Am I the only one who finds Grant's copywriting extremely funny?

I check in on his website every few months just to see if he's ranted about anything new lately. Sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I disagree with him, but I almost never hold an opinion as strongly as he does.

This is not a new phenomenon -- he was writing the same copy for Bridgestone back in the day, as posted in https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...o-an-Rb-T-find!

C&V universally agrees that Bridgestone is awesome, but is so highly divided on Riv... is it just 'cuz Grant's gotten "Grantier" over the years?

KonAaron Snake 

No it doesn't...I think Bridgestones were over priced then, I think they're over priced on the used market now and I prefer pretty much every other Japanese bike out there (except maybe Fuji). They make others happy...which is all that's important. Bridgestone owners find something about the bikes that I don't...because we're looking for different things. Chocolate and vanilla.

ScottRyder 

Kurt, right on. But not just Rivendell.

Sounds like what one ad man says to another ....


Scott

cudak888 

I like Schwinn's marketing better.

Humor aside, there is such a thing as humble marketing as well. Volkswagen's campaign by Doyle Dane Bernbach, for starters (though a bit extreme).

Without question. Heck, even V/O isn't afraid to trumpet their new products, but they do so with dignity and respect - they don't insult other members of the cycling community to sell their parts (heck, I thought that was relegated to the 41 crowd).

-Kurt

KonAaron Snake 

I hear you, and I'm not a big fan of Riv's marketing either, but that doesn't mean the bikes don't have merit...they do. It's not for me, and I wouldn't pay a premium for that label, but I get it. I don't like Apple's marketing because I don't see myself as cool and/or hip...but I LOVE their products.

cudak888 

There was a Rambouillet at the LBS recently - very nice machine; wouldn't deny that. Just the same, there are many other semi-customs available that don't have an attitude attached to them.

I'd rather own a Bridgestone before a Rivendell - Bridgestones don't have the holier-than-thou campaign of superiority attached to them.

-Kurt

ScottRyder 

Attitude ... wow, I ran into a guy at the market who had a $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ titanium SEVEN. Jeeez, talk about attitude. He seemed upset that I had invaded his personal square mile on my Fuji!

I'll take the Rivendell attitude thank you!

Scott

cudak888 

Indeed, that's pure 41 attitude - which, at one time, started out no more aggressively than Grant's writings.

Elitist attitudes begin small.

-Kurt

hueyhoolihan

i don't know about you...

but these pictures make me want to GAG...

hueyhoolihan

i don't know about you...

but these pictures make me want to GAG...

edit: and SPEW...

Fletch521

Kurt wins! You get more chicks with a Schwinn. End of debate...

MrEss

She must be into the bike: the pants and belt are doing him no favors.

cudak888 

Have you noticed that if you put a cowboy hat on him, he becomes Rosco P. Coltraine?

-Kurt

snarkypup

That paisley bikini looks like a pair of corduroy bell bottoms I wore in 3rd grade.

Hydrated

Except that I'm waaaaay too clumsy to ride a bike that close to a pool.